Talk:Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina

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It's interesting to see how James' reorganization is going! I can't help worrying that tweaking the work pages to fit into the scheme might have consequences hard to foresee: if I remove Lauda Sion (1575) (Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina) from the hymn category that contains Amazing Grace, how would I guess that the composer page might be messed up? I can suggest Hymns be replaced with ""Sequence hymns|Sequences"" and "Office hymns|Hymns", and that Eucharistic songs are an anachronism useful mainly for Benediction Service planners but not a genre Palestrina knowingly worked in. Motet is a loose label that I usually apply to anything I think Vaarky might like, but is it here being removed from some work pages and added to pages that need to be listed as "other"? The "Vergine" madrigals don't really belong in Category:Motets. Richard Mix (talk) 01:12, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Richard. (Not just me; Claude is equally to blame!

1. If you remove Hymn from the genre for Lauda Sion (1575), it will disappear from the Hymns list and automatically appear under Other sacred works in Latin.

2. At the moment, there is an AND function, but not an OR function. So we could have a separate listing for Sequence Hymns and for Office Hymns, but not (at the moment) a joint list that was properly sorted alphabetically.

3. Your understanding of the intricacies of Catholic nomenclature is admirable; I recognise the words but am ignorant about the subtle gradations. We could therefore delete the genre Eucharistic Song from every Palestrina works page where is used. (A temporary <>{{#SortWorks:Eucharistic songs}}<> would be the easiest way to find them all. If they then have a genre which fits under an existing heading, they will be sorted under that heading; if not, they will end up sorted under Other sacred works in Latin.

4. I've created a Sacred Madrigals list, including one that was otherwise classified.

5. I added motets to genres before the exclusion list was available. This was to ensure that nothing was lost from the composer page. If redundant motet genres are removed, they will either revert to another list, or to the catch-all Other sacred works in Latin. As I said on the Soriano page, this is still work in progress, but we do seem to be progressing!Jamesgibb (talk) 14:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Richard, I've gone through the Motets list and removed the genre Motet wherever there was another genre available. The current Motets list should consist only of those works with the genre Sacred, Motet and nothing else. You will have a much better eye than I have for those works where another genre would be more appropriate, so I'll leave that to you.
I've created new lists Antiphons, Office hymns and Responsories. That means that anything described as Hymn or Sequence hymn will now appear in the list of other works. I've included Votive antiphons and Magnificat antiphons in the Antiphon list. As there is no OR function at the moment, I've done this by adding Antiphon as a genre to works where the genre was Votive or Magnificat antiphon.Jamesgibb (talk) 15:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I hope I haven't offended either of you too much!
re 3. I don't advocate removing Eucharistic Songs from work pages: it's a valid categorization for other purposes that the composer page, just as Sequences and Votive antiphons are to be found published in collections of 'motets', a designation more or less equivalent to "other sacred Latin"). Why shouldn't a work fit into more than one genre category? Richard Mix (talk) 06:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
I've clearly misunderstood the point you were making, Richard. As you pointed out that Eucharistic Song was an anachronism as far as Palestrina was concerned, that you meant it should be removed. I certainly don't have an issue with works having more than one genre category.Jamesgibb (talk) 10:11, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
By the way, the OR function is now available. See details here. Max a.k.a. Choralia (talk) 10:51, 26 April 2016 (UTC)