User talk:CHGiffen
alias Charles H. Giffen or simply Chucktalk Giffen♫.
Feel free to leave questions and comments on this page about any contributions I've made to CPDL as a ChoralWiki editor/administrator.
- Comments and questions about scores I have edited for CPDL (other than my own compositions) should be posted here.
- Comments and questions about my own compositions should be posted on my composer talk page.
You may also contact me (1) on the CPDL Bulletin Board, username: CHGiffen or (2) via e-mail: chg4k AT yahoo DOT com (with " AT " and " DOT " replaced by "@" and "." respectively).
Please use my talk page in the following manner:
- start new discussions by clicking on the "+" tab to the right of the "edit" at the top of this page or click here,
- continue discussions by clicking on the "edit" link directly right of the appropriate title below,
- and always sign your posts by typing four tildes afterwards (~~~~).
I will try to respond to your messages in a timely manner.
If you have left a message on this page, I will reply here unless you request that I reply on your talk page. Because of this, you may find it useful to temporarily watch this page.
If I have left a message for you on your talk page, please reply there. I will have your talk page on my watch list, and I watch the recent changes as well, so I'll see your message anyway. The reason for this is to keep the discussion together. Thank you for your co-operation!Archives
- Archive 1, Jul 2007 - Sep 2007
- Archive 2, Oct 2007 - Dec 2007
- Archive 3, Jan 2008 - Mar 2008
- Archive 4, Apr 2008 - Jun 2008
- Archive 5, Jul 2008 - Sep 2008
problems with uploading scores
Thought you should know that scores do not upload properly. I just uploaded a revised version. The system prompted me to overwrite the old version, but the old version is still displayed. Jonathang 18:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
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Tried this. Old version still displays. Tried uploading again. System recongised 3rd version as a duplicate but still displayed orginal version. Jonathang 19:18, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
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Chuck. Sorry this has not cured the problem. The old version is still displaying. You will know that you have the right version when there are no prefatory staves and when the source "Arte de Canto Llano" by Martin y Coll appears in the top left hand corner of the first page. Jonathang 19:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- Post script. I have solved the problem for this specific axoew* by uploading the new version with a new file name. The ability to overwrite old versions probably needs to be checked carefully. If you need any further help from me let me know. Jonathang 20:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC) (N.B. "axoew" = "score" shifted one key to the left on the keyboard :)
- Hi Jonathan, there's nothing wrong with the upload system for new versions, it's just that now the site has a file caching feature activated and it may imply in that some links are not updated instantly. Anyway, uploading the new files with a different name is not the best solution either, next time just ask an admin to delete the old versions (as was done for you) and the new ones will instantly become available. Alternatively, just wait for a couple of hours (or days?) and the cache system will correct the links. —Carlos 06:54, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Use of "Scorch" designation for Sibelius source file.
Hi Chuck. Noticed your changes to my recent post of Palestrina's "Alma Redemptoris". I fixed the PDF file link, which was a cut-n-paste error. I also reverted the change to the "Scorch" designation. When I do a CPDL post I give full access to the Sibelius source file, (you can download it with a right-click on "Sibelius 4"). If you double-left click on it, and you have Sibelius's "Scorch" utility installed, it will come up in Scorch, but you can't print it or save it from there. Some editors may want this restriction, and labeling their scores with (Scorch) would indicate this limitation. Hence I prefer the "Sibelius 4" designation I've been using, indicating free access to the source file, with no limitations. Johnhenryfowler 19:22, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
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Spelling mistake
Apologies. I have just noticed that I made a spelling mistake in the title of Callcott's Miserere. Not sure how to correct this. I don't want to make things worse by trying so have dated the entry tomorrow so it does not appear in "latest editions" Jonathang 08:10, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
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Text requests
Hi Chuck, Since things seem to be getting along nicely again at cpdl, I'm willing to devote some time to reviewing/editing pages again. I've started by having a look at the Latin text requests, and tackled this one, which onfortunately happened to be in the wrong language cat :)) Still, when I complete a text, does that mean I have to delete the title from the request list? Cordially, joachim 18:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC) P.S.: How about the Virgo serena by Pipelare? Fancy a go at the alto part?
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Hi Chuck, I've been adding texts to the scores in the Latin text requests. Strangely, none of them disappear from the request list subsequently: this one and this one, for instance. Any thoughts? Cordially, joachim 17:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Edit: Figured it out myself - it was my browser's cache that got the better of me. :)
Popular composers & scores
Only just discovered these pages. Well done, they look great! Do you think there should be a link to ChoralWiki:Popular composers on the Main Page as well as scores? --Bobnotts talk 09:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks, Rob. I was thinking about including it, but just haven't done it yet. I'll rearrange stuff in the CPDL statistics template to include the Popular composers, too (in the meantime, I had simply cross-linked these with Popular compositions). -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 12:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
LatestScores automatically updated
Hi Chuck, now it's my turn to free you from this tedious work of creating the "yyyy-dd-mm scores" pages. :)
Please have a look at the pages just created: template:ScoresOn and ChoralWiki:LatestScores. This last one is basically the same as the 'Template:LatestScores' you used to update by hand, with the difference that now the dates are updated automatically with the use of the ParserFunction #time.
You will still have to create the log page for the months, though; I haven't found a way to automate them yet. The daily pages are unnecessary, in my point of view. —Carlos 17:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Update: The monthly scores list could be a bit automated too, with the use of template:ScoresIn. Have a look at the ChoralWiki:October 2008 scores page to see it in action. If you don't like the templates names, do change them at will. —Carlos 18:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
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- Hi Chuck, I made some more changes to the templates, hope you approve them: added navigation links to the Monthly scores lists and made the daily headers automatically appear only when that specific day returns any results. Also added a line break separating the days, do you think it's too much spacing? —Carlos 18:05, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
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Automating Psalm settings lists
Hi Chuck. How do you feel about what I've said on Talk:Psalm 150? --Bobnotts talk 11:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Anonymous edits
Hi Chuck, could you please check if these old editions were made by you? They were registered to an anonymous IP, and I intend to merge some of the most frequent IPs to their owners (mostly you, Raf, and a few others who were active back them). What do you think of the idea?
By the way, I know it's not my business but I noticed that your talk Archives begin only in 2007, but you had some entries back in 2006. Was it on purpose or did you forget these? :) —Carlos 04:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
| Help |
Hi, Carlos--saw your note and wanted to ask a question to clarify. You're only proposing to do this when the user confirms the association explicitly, right? I would be concerned about retroactively changing the association for privacy reasons without the consent of each individual involved, but consent may well be all you are proposing and I wanted to check. Thanks. |
- Hi Vaarky, I think there's no need to have such concerns about privacy issues here in CPDL; it's just a music site after all, not something like Wikipedia in what is related to intellectual content. Those early editions were mostly fixes to some errors created during the conversion from the old system to the Wiki, and only were made anonymously because people often forgot to log in before the edits. It only ended after the log in was made mandatory. But I may asure you I would only make such user mergers after I was absolutely sure of the identity of the anonymous IP (Raf often wrote personal messages anonymously, but signed his name as usual). —Carlos 03:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
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- Thanks Chuck for the information and for checking the origin of the IP! —Carlos 03:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
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NoComp
Hi Chuck, I see a serious problem in using your new template. Many times it's desirable to have a different title on the composer page, with some more details that the work title may not bring, and sometimes a title formatted with accents and accentuation marks that were not present on the work title (for example: Perchè fuggi, amica mia? ). When you applied the new template to Monteverdi's page (didn'd check the other composers yet), all these alternative titles were lost (cf. here the two Laudate Dominum entries and many many others). Perhaps you could add a 3rd parameter to the template for the alternative title? —Carlos 05:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
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- Hi Chuck, while I do appreciate your effort in doing the above enhancements, on the other hand I would probably not use this template in complex situations, given its inherent difficulty. In fact, the division of the title in smaller parts, besides making the comprehension too complicated, also has the disadvantage of making the title virtually "hidden" to the extension ReplaceText, whenever we need to rename a work extensively.
- If I may, I'd like to suggest that we keep your template for its original purpose of creating simpler links wherever necessary, and propose the use of a new template in the form that had been sugested by me some time ago in the forum, exclusively for work entries in composer pages. The difference is that this new template treats almost all situations related to such entries (I've not included an option for broken links yet), incorporating all variables in it. By applying it to the Claudio Monteverdi page at the test wiki, I could reduce the page size from 41.400 Kb to 26.560 Kb, almost half the size. The page also looks much more "clean", especially when we put each parameter in a single line. Please visit the Monteverdi page here and have a look at the various formattings I used. The template page is here. —Carlos 22:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
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- Hi Chuck, yes, it seems a good idea if we all keep each other informed of new developments that might represent massive changes to a page. Though changes can always be reverted, the time we spent on it can't! :( I'm sorry to talk about the new template only now, but either I was too slow in its development or you were too fast in making the changes to NoComp and implementing them to Monteverdi's page; when I noticed it you had already done it all, hehe!
- In fact the idea for template Work isn't new, and I had already cited something basically identical (but intended for work pages) around 3 months ago in this forum message. The purpose is basically to have just one template to deal with all work entry data, instead of the many now used ( {{NoComp}}, {{LLink}}, {{LLinkW}}, {{Link}}, {{LnkWeb}}, {{Editions}}, {{filepath:}}, {{pdf}}, {{mid}}, {{external}}, {{broken}}, among others). Unfortunately our conversation about this subject didn't evolve to a solution back then, but I would like to hear the opinions of the other admins now (you seem not to be against it, right?). We could leave the Monteverdi page as it is with template NoComp until we reach a consensus, what do you think? —Carlos 02:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
subcategory question
Chuck,
I've got a question about the "Shape Note" category. I've written tunes in both American "Sacred Harp" style and the English "West gallery" style. While the music has common roots, there are quite different from each other. Since CPDL has no separate distinctions for this, I've created subcategories under my Shape Notes header. I'm thinking that this might assist users coming to my page in being able to quickly identify w/o having to open each one to look.
Alternatively, Tim Henderson has contributed a wealth of West Gallery music, and his are all categorised as "Hymns." What about the possibility of moving the "West Gallery" subcategory up to "Hymns?" The WGM is generally written in four-stave form, and frequently each voice part is its own melody. This makes it stand somewhat on its own, especially since I also have Sacred Harp and traditional English hymns there as well.
I'm trying to see this from the user's perspective. If the user is looking for hymns, and comes across my page (or any one else's), it might be helpful for them to see right away variant forms. I'd appreciate your thoughts and input on this.Tweedfour 14:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Availability for conf call?
Hi, Chuck--Can you let me know your availability for the conference call I e-mailed you about? Please let me know if you didn't get the e-mail. Thanks. --Vaarky 17:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
PAGESINCATEGORY
Chuck, the difference you see here comes from the fact that PAGESINCATEGORY includes subcategories in the sum, but they are not counted in the Main Page statistics. Carlos ✉ 19:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, okay Carlos, thanks for the clarification. There must be one page not in the 0th namespace that has been categorized in Sheet music - because the (noncategory) page count if off by one.
- By the way, the reason that the last line of your post is clobbering the first line of my post is in your signature declaration. You need to move the font size declaration inside the subscript (and probably reduce it to size 4 or 5 ... something like: Carlos ✉ ... This was obtained by typing [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [[User talk:Carlos|<sub><font size="5">✉</font></sub>]], which doesn't lower the entire line so much that it clobbers the next line. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 20:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Chuck, thanks for your effort! This envelope character was a bit problematic indeed, taking too much vertical space either above or below the line, and people without the proper character set would probably not see it, so I decided to return to the good ole image envelope :) —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 02:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
merge templates
Hi Chuck, there was no need to delete the templates 'merge from/to' and edit the pages in which they were used. My intention was to leave these two as alternative aliases just as we have 'Lang' for 'Language'. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 16:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oops, sorry Carlos. Since the (now deleted) forms were only used in two instances apiece, I changed them, thinking that there was too small a difference between the old and new forms. The reason for using (actually abbreviating) "language" to "language" was one of expediency/speed in typing (especially, back when everything was pretty much done by hand) - the same for "acap" abbreviating "a cappella". If you want, we can restore the previous mere to/from redirects. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 16:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's ok, Chuck. I particularly have nothing against the use of aliases for templates (as long as just one of the forms is documented as the "official" one), but now reading the talk page I remembered that Rob doesn't approve their use. It would be good if we reach a consensus on this matter before using them. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 17:08, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Arranger
Hi Chuck, I'm not sure it's a good idea to have the arranger info in place of the Editor/Contributor as you did in Faith. As I see it, this field should have specific information about the producer of the electronic edition (Editor), and when this information is missing (say, when it's a scan), the name of the person who uploaded it to CPDL (Contributor). Even though in this case it's the same person who did the arrangement and the edition, it would be more clear if we kept these informations in different places, writting the arranger name below the composer's, as is usually done. What do you think? —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 18:16, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I agree. It's just that Douglas listed the work with "Editor/Arranger". I should have made it "Editor" instead of "Arranger". -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 20:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
template NewWork
Hi Chuck, would you mind waiting a few hours to continue with the removal of this template? I was running the DotNetWikiBot to catch the remaining cases in which the Editor hadn't been replaced by the template, but extension Replace Text is very resource consuming and makes the bot stop every time. Later we can program the bot to remove the NewWork template too, without you having to change the date each time by hand! —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 21:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, Carlos. By the way, where is the DotNetWikiBot code you promised? ;) -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 21:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I will post it on the forum! When you see it you won't believe how simple it is to do things as remove the NewWork template! :) —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 21:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Catalogue template and associated categories
Hi Chuck. I just stumbled on Category:CPDL numbers [now deleted] (and the associated template [now deleted]) and wondered if you plan to go any further with this experiment? Tbh, I'm not sure what you were trying to do to start with but perhaps you could enlighten me! --Bobnotts talk 20:30, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
- As you may I noticed, I have started to remove these templates since I have had no reply. I will continue when I return from my holiday if I have still received no reply. --Bobnotts talk 13:42, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Markus-Passion
Hi Chuck, it was a good idea to put together all parts of the Markus-Passion into the main work page; you just missed to copy the texts/translations that Claude had just added to each of the deleted pages. If you open them and click on "View or restore x deleted edits?", the texts can be recovered from the last edit of each page (without having to undelete the pages). Regards, —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 00:08, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, never mind, I just remembered it would be easier to copy the texts from www1.cpdl.org and already did it. :) —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 00:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
score edition notes
Hi Chuck, i've recently modified the disclaimer/copyright info on my editions. Should i include those on score edition notes ?.
this is the one i use now,
"Disclaimer: I do not know if this work is still copyrighted, use at your risk!!, Please do not use this file if you do not agree to the www.cpdl.org "Personal" copyright license or think this is an illegal edition !!. I collect sacred works of obscure composers and re-engrave in digital format for religious use. I can not be held responsible for any copyright related issues."
Ebykm 13:50, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
File missing
Hi Chuck, I recently posted a replacement pdf for Tristis est anima mea, but it doesn't appear on the score page for one reason or other. Any thoughts on this? Cordially, joachim 17:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Joachim. Replacement/revised edition PDFs do not change the original submission and posting dates, so there isn't any new listing on the New scores page. You will find the original still listed on February 2009 scores for February 9. I will add a note to the "Edition notes:" section about the uploading of a replacement PDF. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 19:41, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
- Chuck, if I understood Joachim correctly, his complaint was related to the pdf link appearing broken. When he replaced the original link with the link to the new version, he inadvertently removed the space between the link and the {{pdf}} template, rendering the link invalid. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 00:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- No problem! I too forgot to reply Joachim here after the fix. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 01:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks guys. joachim 15:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Sortkey in Template:KbdRed
Hi Chuck. Since you made some alterations to this template intending to remove the 9th parameter for a sort key, I thought I might ask if you could look again at the template. The category doesn't seem to be sorting pages correctly, even when defaultsort is used properly on the score page. See The beauty of Israel is slain (Robert Barber) and A New Year Carol (Paul Stetsenko) for examples. --Bobnotts talk 13:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
- Rob, I'd say it's just a caching effect. "The beauty of Israel" is already sorted under letter B. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 19:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
- (Sorry for the interuption to your talk page, Chuck!) Yes, you're right about "The beauty of Israel" Carlos. But even when I "purge" the cache the other score page still comes up under "A". Is this normal? --Bobnotts talk 19:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
- Usually it may take some hours to update, but in this case what happened is that you added the sort key first and then you moved the page, and it seems to have confounded the system. When I opened the page and saved it with no changes, it immediatelly corrected the category entry. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 20:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- (Sorry for the interuption to your talk page, Chuck!) Yes, you're right about "The beauty of Israel" Carlos. But even when I "purge" the cache the other score page still comes up under "A". Is this normal? --Bobnotts talk 19:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Composers who belong to more than one era
Hi Chuck, I saw that you removed category "Modern" from Boris Ledkovsky, but someone who lived until 1975 can not be considered exclusively an "Early 20th century" composer. Similarly, Monteverdi and others lived in the transition between the Renaissance (prima pratica) and the early Baroque (seconda pratica), and so on. I don't see a problem in adding categories for both eras in these cases. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 18:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
- Seconding listing composers in multiple categories. --Vaarky 05:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- I've no problem with multiple era categories, but do we interpret these strictly in terms of the time a composer lived or the style in which the music is composed. For Boris Ledkovsky, there is no secunda practica analogue, as his entire output was dedicated to traditional Russian Orthodox music, not really more modern than Rachmaninoff, who is not classified as modern at all. Where does Early 20th century end and Modern begin? 1935? 1950? 1965? When I lived in Virginia, I had access to a large amount of (Boris) Ledkovsky music (as well as that of his son Alexander Ledkovsky) which I studied extensively, and my impression was always that the elder Ledkovsky should be regarded as early 20th century, or perhaps even as a holdover from the Romantic era. Of course, if the distinction is to be based on the time period alone, then of course it may well be that Boris should be classified as modern (since mid or late 20th century are not presently available as musical eras). But if stylilstic grounds should be taken into account, then although not as convinced about the appropriateness of the classification, I'll not object further to Boris Ledkovsky being classified also in the modern era. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 13:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- That's an interesting topic; I always thought that the classification at CPDL was done exclusively on a chronological basis. I guess I thought so because there are no categories for "neoclassical" or "modernist" composers, as there are for "classical" and "modern". In fact I feel that new categories based on style would be a welcome adition.
- "Where does Early 20th century end and Modern begin?" Good question! In fact there isn't such an expression as "Early 20th century" in Portuguese; what is used that I think comes closer to it is "Post-romantic". My guess is that "Modern" begins around or right after WWII. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 00:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- Intg topic indeed. I too thought the category of Renaissance Composers was based on when a composer lived (and whether they spanned two periods), rather than the style of work they composed. I know people living now who have written pieces in the Renaissance style, but I think the vast majority of CPDL users would be surprised to find a living composer classified as a Renaissance composer. Also, basing it on their lifespan would avoid having to put 5 or more categories for a composer who composed in the Renaissance, Romantic, Modern, Baroque and various other styles. And it would avoid the whole debate of NeoClassical versus Classical. Also, in a musical book, a living composer would be in an index of Modern composers, never Renaissance composers. To me, it just doesn't make sense to classify a composer by the type of work they published instead of the period(s) they spanned. They are still a product of their times even if writing exclusively in an earlier style. --Vaarky 03:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Philip's talk page
Hi Chuck, when you replied to me in Philip's talk page, you inadvertently removed his own reply. I'd fix it but I thought you'd like to do it yourself. By the way, that mea culpa section was placed correctly? It doesn't seem to be related to the conversation above it, please check. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 16:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Carlos. Interestingly, Philip's reply didn't appear at all when I loaded the page and opened it for editing, so I never saw his reply until I read your message here - maybe a caching problem - or maybe I'm going blind? :) The mea culpa is indented one from where you made your comment about it being my mistake, so I think it's placed right. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 12:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, it may be a caching problem. Perhaps you had his talk page open before he left his own reply, in which case you wouldn't see it when you decided to reply too. As for the other message, only now I noticed that Philip had cited you in his reply, sorry for my inattention. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 19:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Score page with no editions
"Should this page even exist (except for having the text to the work)?"
Nope - I deleted it and put the text here. --Bobnotts talk 17:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, Rob! I'm finding a lot of little things as I try to synchronize Composers entries with those in the union of Compositions by composer and Hidden Compositions by composer categories. -- Chucktalk Giffen♫ 17:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Names with diacritics
Hi Chuck, don't worry about adding sort keys to names with diacritics; there's a new template, StripAccents, that when finished will do it for us, ok? Less manual work for us. :) —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 20:15, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
- Chuck, just as a reminder, the template StripAccents is now fully functional, so there's no need to add a sortkey for Déodat de Séverac, for example, because {{LastName|Déodat de Séverac}} produces "Template:LastName". Just trying to make things easier for you. —Carlos [[[:Template:Carlos]] ] 03:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)