User talk:Bobnotts

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Revision as of 09:17, 14 December 2007 by Bobnotts (talk | contribs) (removed end of term notice)
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Clean up Brahms Page

Hello Bobert, I started the clean up of the Brahms page today and it takes much more work than I anticipated. I saved the list of works as text file, so I can edit it off-line. It will look much the same as the work you did on the Mendelssohn page. Maybe you like to see a bit of code before I start editing the real page?
Kind regards, Arie--Arie 21:40, 11 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi Arie. I recommend that you experiment on user subpages like the ones that I have created for my help pages project. Perhaps this page and this page would be good places to start? I'll watch your progress. If there's anything that I'm concerned about, I'll let you know. Likewise, if you have any questions, feel free to leave them here. Regards --Bobnotts talk 22:31, 11 August 2007 (PDT)
Robert, thank you, I am already trying it out!--Arie 23:39, 11 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi Robert. I've finished the alphabetical list, and am now working on the list by Opus number.--Arie 00:37, 19 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi Arie. Well done on completing the alphabetical list. Now the only thing to do is move all the pages that have incorrect titles so that they do. If you could check the "what links here" list (accessable under the toolbox menu on the left) before (or after) moving a page, then correct the links as appropriate, that would be great. Also, it is useful to the admins if you mark redirects which don't have any links to them for deletion. It isn't good on a wiki to have lots of extra unused redirects sitting on the system and distorting searches. In this case, you should use the new delnow template (info on the talk page) to mark those pages for immediate deletion. Thanks for all your work! --Bobnotts talk 04:54, 19 August 2007 (PDT)

CPDL Help

Hi Robert, I had made a help file for adding music to CPDL. it is at: http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/3/3f/Adding-A-Score.txt It is mostly correct, but needs reference to templates for adding composer pages. In my opinion CPDL's "Help" section is really apoor replacement for a FAQ section, and not much help. Johnhenryfowler 10:33, 12 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi John, Thanks for the link. As you may have seen, I've been trying to improve the help system with limited success. It takes so long! But I'm determined to persevere. If you have anything that you want to point out, please leave a message on the talk page of the appropriate WIP page. If you want to start working on something yourself, I've found that the best place to do that is on a user subpage (see Wikipedia's explanations - here). You just have to create a new page called "User:username/subpage_name" and you're away! --Bobnotts talk 04:46, 13 August 2007 (PDT)

Recently added edition - La Pastorella (Anonymous)

Hallo, thank you for your message re editor naming - I will continue to adopt this system. I apologise for breaking the rules (I was just trying to organise things so that Christopher could register as an ordinary user separate to the 'contributor' one - I guess he still can, with your system). I'll put our other scores on soon (I have already generated and noted the CPDL score numbers for them). Mandy Shaw 00:05 BST 20 August. MandyShaw 09:06, 19 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi Mandy. No problem. The only reason that it's useful to have the editor's real and full name is for error reporting etc... I look forward to the rest of the scores! --Bobnotts talk 02:19, 20 August 2007 (PDT)

Links to scores on composer pages

Hello Robert, Brian Russell here.

Hi Brian. I've just editing a page that you recently edited, Thomas Greaves to remove any links to scores (your edition or the other), leaving just the italicised text "2 editions available" in line with CPDL general conventions. In the case of there being 2 or more editions of a work available, the relevant entry on the composer page should not be accompanied by links to scores but instead just a notice which tells the user that they will have to follow the link to the score page for a choice of which edition to use. The only exception is when the editions are by the same editor in which case there may be a preference chosen by the editor.

I was doing just that a bit ago, and was politely chewed out for it. Hmmm... Oh, well... Since I'm going to add rather a large amount later this week (likely another 100 pieces), I'll go ahead with editing the composer pages in line with that convention.

Incidentally, I've recently created a PDF from one of your scores and uploaded it to CPDL and made a link to it from the edition page. It is here. I hope that you approve. Best wishes, Robert.

Thanks. I didn't want to delete the PDFs, but I have somewhat limited space on my site, and am working on a new edition of the English Madrigalists Series (without Stainer & Bell's intellectual property - the editorial markings like barring & accents, dynamics, etc.), and along with various other bits of Renaissance vocal music, really couldn't afford the space. I didn't want to impose on CPDL for more than 1000 PDFs, especially when I don't know how many people would be interested. (8^(>O Brian Russell 07:45, 20 August 2007 (PDT)

Welcome back!

Hi Rob, welcome back! I got a chance to hear the BBC 3 broadcast of the Choral Evensong from Dunblane Cathedral. It was a beautiful hour, and I'll try to listen in again another time or two.

I'm currently trying to work on Template:delreq and recall how I got the previous version to include a yyyy-mm-dd sort key for the Category:Delete requests, but so far no success. Please note also that you should substitute the Template:delnow (I don't remember if you knew this before your break).

It's good to have you back. -- ChuckGiffen 05:13, 3 September 2007 (PDT)

Hi Chuck. Thanks for that and sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I'm simultaneously recovering from my holiday, going back to a full time job, renovating and house and trying to keep up with all the good stuff that's going on here! I'm glad you enjoyed the broadcast. I think I'm ok with the delete templates. I look forward to getting more involved but at the moment I feel like all my efforts are just to tread water... we'll see how things go... --Bobnotts talk 07:53, 6 September 2007 (PDT)

Composer cleanup

  • the text "n editions available" should be italicised as with the other instances

Robert, I've been trying to get the edition #s on the Farnaby composer page to italicize, but nothing seems to work. I tried a copy/paste from some that work, I tried the Italicize button at the top of the window, then copy/paste including the end of a good one as far back as taking a bracket from the end of the marker for the title, but to no avail. Could you help me out?

Thanks, Brian Russell 06:08, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for sorting out the 'editor name' issue

Is there a set of guidelines documented somewhere that will prevent me from making this sort of mistake? I can't find one.MandyShaw 23:33, 15 September 2007 (PDT)

Hi Mandy. CPDL is currently in the stage of overhauling all the help material. My work may be found on various subpages linked from my user page. I will shortly move at least one of those items (the score submission guide) to be a subpage of the Community portal where the CPDL community can raise any issues and offer suggestions. I will add this issue of "editor name" to the standards subpage which I am drafting. Regards --Bobnotts talk 06:03, 18 September 2007 (PDT)

Category Pagan Music?

Hi Robert!

Thanks for cleaning up Leanne and my pages - we're both new at the Wiki-based CPDL (my previous CPDL contributions were in its pre-Wiki days).

I was wondering why you changed the category of Pagan music to Unknown genre in Leanne's Crescent Moon page?

Cheers,

Michael Winikoff PS. Feel free to reply by email (michael AT winikoff DOT net)

Thanks for your 2 lots of advice

Will be adding some more composers and works at the weekend - I'll try the composer template out then.MandyShaw 09:23, 19 September 2007 (PDT)

Correct title format for Handels works?

Since discussions on composer pages are not very quick noticed I post a link here: Talk:George_Frideric_Handel--Arie 20:03, 24 September 2007 (PDT)

Birth/Death dates

Hi Bob,

For the Birth/Death Dates on composer pages I noticed that all the unhosted composer pages you edited still have dates with format:


Born: 12 November 1833

Died: 27 February 1887


for example:

  http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Alexander_Borodin


Is this the "right" format for the date ? I thought you were changing to:

Born: 12 November 1833

Died: 27 February 1887


Johnhenryfowler 09:54, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

Hi John. As I understand it (and I may well be wrong on this), it should be as follows:
Born: 12 November 1833
Died: 27 February 1887
Because the links aren't useful as far as I can see. And I think it helps to have "Born:" and "Died:" bold. But then that's just my opinion.... I think it's right though, of course! Regards --Bobnotts talk 10:00, 6 October 2007 (PDT)
Yeah, that's right - to be honest I was in a bit of a rush and just wanted to get the category right (unhosted). Normally, I would go through and change it all... --Bobnotts talk 10:02, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

Your HELP pages

Your excellent help page on submitting your own score was never put into the HELP system. Can I ask why this was not done ? It is a big improvement over my original text version and should be getting used... Johnhenryfowler 01:12, 7 October 2007 (PDT)

Hi John. No, it wasn't added. It should definitely be added but I still had a few of Noel's suggestions to add. It could be added as it is but I think there's still some work to do... Incidentally, I've edited the page you created, Advent for Choirs. I thought that the titles generally just got in the way - better to have '''Title:''' than ==Title== in my view. I also tidied the contents, adding links where there are CPDL editions for the works in question. Let me know what you think. --Bobnotts talk 03:35, 7 October 2007 (PDT)
I like your page for Advent for Choirs but I'd put the works numbers back in to help navigation in the physical book. Also preferred the label "Webpage to buy the book" label for the URL to the website - it makes it clear - "direct link" isn't as clear. It must have been a lot of work to get the links done for the CPDL works pages and composer pages. :)
Let's (the two of us) agree on a standard format to use with Musical Publications - Make a template - and use it. This will save hours of re-editing. I've done Carols For Choirs-Vol1, Carols For Choirs-Vol2, Carols For Choirs-Vol3, Carols For Choirs-Vol4, Madrigals and Partsongs, 100 Carols for choirs all in the other format - which should now be re-edited for a consistant look to these pages
What is your take on whether copying out the table of contents for a specific book (which is under copyright) would violate the book's copyright ? Johnhenryfowler 11:02, 7 October 2007 (PDT)
Hmm I'm not sure of the copyright implications... on the one hand, it's just a list of works... it's not like you can copyright the order of a concert programme but then it has been specifically chosen... I reckon because we're adding a link to the publishers to buy it, if we were to email them, they can hardly say no - it's like free advertising for them.
Anyway, I definitely agree about making a template and sticking to it. I'll add the numbering back to Advent for Choirs (I take it where you jumped from 1 to 3 here that was a mistake? I'll also put back the description of the link - you're right, it is clearer. It took a while to get all the links right but hopefully it was worth it! --Bobnotts talk 02:42, 8 October 2007 (PDT)
The jump from 1 --> 3 IS a mistake. I checked the original. Johnhenryfowler 04:41, 8 October 2007 (PDT)
I've just created Template:Collection which should make it easier to standardise any new anthem (or other genre) collections. The usage is explained on the talk page. I'll standardise the rest of the anthem collections that you've added when I get a spare moment. --Bobnotts talk 08:31, 12 October 2007 (PDT)


Was checking to see if your help page was now linked up to Help Page Help:How_can_I_post_my_own_scores? Found it wasn't - Looking forward to having it linked up. Johnhenryfowler 01:11, 12 October 2007 (PDT)

Believe me, it's at the top of my "to do" list :-) --Bobnotts talk 08:31, 12 October 2007 (PDT)
I've just finished editing the page (I think) and it's ready to be moved to the main help system when an admin has a free moment to do so... --Bobnotts talk 01:02, 13 October 2007 (PDT)

Mery yt ys - edited links

Thanks for the note Bob. I remember grappling with that one late at night long after the coffee ran out. I have since revisited it (and revised it), and hopefully the links now point in the right directions. I have left the "cleanup" box in place until the page is approved.

Mery yt ys

--Lil Miss Picky 10:29, 7 October 2007 (PDT)

Hi there. Thanks for adding the line on the Anonymous composer page but I'm afraid that's only half the job! To submit the score correctly, one must run the "add works form" and place the code that it produces on the page Mery yt ys (Anonymous), instead of the ABC code which you have added. You may find it useful to consult my draft help page on score submission [edit: now complete]. I would do this myself but I'm afraid I don't have the time at the moment. If you encounter difficulties or don't get round to it until I am able to, I'll do it myself. All the best --Bobnotts talk 04:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

Re Robert Barber composer page

Hi - just a note that I removed the birth and death categories as we don't have his birth or death years, only the dates between which he 'flourished' - so surely the birth and death categories are meaningless if not misleading... MandyShaw 22:15, 16 October 2007 (PDT) (P.S. something very odd indeed about that automatically generated timestamp, it was approx 1.15 BST on Wed 17th.)

Hi Mandy. Yes, the categories aren't useful at all. I thought you'd forgotten to add them and I didn't notice the "fl" abbreviation. I'll replace them with "Unknown" as it should be for all composers where the birth and/or death dates aren't known. As for the time stamp, I think the clock on the CPDL server is out a fair bit! I'll send Raf an email to see if he can fix it. --Bobnotts talk 23:23, 16 October 2007 (PDT)

Village pump - and Community portal?

Hi Rob. Great that you have activated ChoralWiki:Village pump. What should be its scope, as compared with Wikepedia:Village pump? Also, do you feel we should make a go with ChoralWiki:Community portal? In particular, should there be some sort of index into these (and other?) areas of CPDL on the Main Page? A new blurb about these might be a good thing, too. -- Chucktalk Giffen 08:36, 24 October 2007 (PDT)

Hi Chuck, yes, absolutely. I was about to post on the forum about the village pump. To be honest, I hadn't really given it much thought and just wanted to get it off the ground. I think we should probably only split things up if people start posting enough to warrant it. CPDL isn't as big as Wikipedia, of course :-) As for the community portal, I think that currently CPDL does not have enough active moderators/monitors/admins, whatever you want to call them. Essentially, IMHO, there aren't enough people who do something on the wiki except add their editions or works (not to diminish those people's efforts, of course - without transcribers/editors, CPDL would be nothing). The Community Portal is my vision for getting people involved in CPDL as a wiki, not just a free sheet music site. I thought I posted on the admin part of the forum about this a while ago but I can't find it so it's probably still all in my head! There's lots more to be done on the community portal IMO. A link from the main page and a news article would be great. Perhaps we should discuss on ChoralWiki talk:Community portal? --Bobnotts talk 08:53, 24 October 2007 (PDT)

Paul Hindemith

Hi, thanks for the corrections to the page above. I was unaware there was such distinction between 'hosted' and 'unhosted' composers. :) Carlos 07:36, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

No problem! It's designed to be useful to users, so that when they browse composers in the category and click on one expecting to be able to download some scores, they don't instead get a page without any downloads available. Do add some more composers in the future if they don't already have a presence here - it encourages other people to submit new editions or biographical info. Thanks --Bobnotts talk 08:42, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

Change in template ?

Hi Bob,

Would you add a new template: ((a-cappella or keyboard))  ?

Most of the works where I used the ((a-cappella or piano)) template would be probably using organ to accompany, so "Keyboard" is more generic. I didn't do more than 15 usages of the template, so (if you agree) now would be a good time to change it, and I'll edit in the change to the individual works pages.

Another way to go is use 3 templates:

((a-cappella or piano))
((a-cappella or organ))
((a-cappella or keyboard))

Johnhenryfowler 10:19, 9 November 2007 (PST)

Hi John. I've just created the new template - Template:a cappella or keyboard which I think is best. If you could correct all the instances where Template:a cappella or piano is used, that would be great. Leave a message here when you're done then I'll then delete that template. Cheers --Bobnotts talk 06:16, 13 November 2007 (PST)
I've corrected the pages and deleted the old "piano" template. --Bobnotts talk 06:22, 16 November 2007 (PST)

Matthew Locke

Bob

I filled in a "new composer" form for Locke last weekend, but he has not yet appeared. Is there something else I should do? Jgoodliffe 01:04, 28 November 2007 (PST)

Hi Jonathan. That form is old and relies on the manager (Raf) adding the page which (frankly) just won't happen in the near future. I have altered the page to reflect the current situation (users are now advised to refer to the score submission guide and create the page themselves instead). If you would like me to add the composer for you, please leave all the details here (birth and death dates, nationality, period, works, links etc.) Otherwise, please follow the instructions on the score submission guide. Regards --Bobnotts talk 03:06, 28 November 2007 (PST).
Thanks. Have done it myself now Jgoodliffe 05:35, 28 November 2007 (PST)

Estote fortes (Luca Marenzio)

Hi, i'm sorry for the not-so-professional page of Estote fortes (Luca Marenzio), i'm not very able to use CPDL, even if i've got some experience in wikipedia. Moreover i'm italian and i'm not so good about speaking english. Now I'm trying to learn something about this site...

A part from that, can I ask you a question? Under which category or authors shall i publish (is this the right term?) popular italian choir songs, in particular from the alpine zone? Most of them are anonymous, but with very good arrangements (also by well-known musician, f.e. Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli)... Shall I open a page for them, or put them under the name of the arranger, or just call them anonymous?

Thank you for your attention --Roberto.sette 06:33, 29 November 2007 (PST)

Hi Roberto. Don't worry about the page - I'm happy to help. There are a couple of requirements for a score page which you haven't met yet - they are the following:
  1. Editor name (your full real name is required - is this Roberto Sette?)
  2. An image file, typically a PDF file. If you don't have software that can create a PDF file, try CutePDF which is free.
As for your anonymous songs, you should list them under the Anonymous page, noting the arranger on the page. There should be composer info on the Anonymous page and a separate page for each song. I hope that's clear. If you need any more information, just leave another message here. Please create and upload a PDF file for the edition. Regards --Bobnotts talk 14:19, 29 November 2007 (PST)

Ok. Thank you! I'll post soon the PDF file. --Roberto.sette 08:49, 3 December 2007 (PST)