User talk:Bobnotts: Difference between revisions

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<div class="plainlinks" style="{{{extra-style|}}}; background-color: {{{bgcolor|#cedff2}}};  border: 2px solid {{{border-color|#a3b0bf}}}; width: {{{width|}}}; color: {{{color|black}}}; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: .5em 1em; clear: both;"><big><center>'''Welcome to the talk page of Bobnotts, aka Robert Nottingham'''</center></big>
<center><big>'''As I approach my university finals, I will have limited amounts of time on CPDL. If your query is urgent, I suggest you post it on the [[CW:BB|Bulletin Board]]. I will be back for business as usual from Friday 23rd May.'''</big><br>--[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 00:07, 15 May 2008 (PDT)</center>
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<center><big>'''I am on holiday without internet access from 15th to 21st September. If you leave a message here, I will answer it as soon as possible after I get back. If you would like a faster response, try asking on the [{{MediaWiki:Discussions-url}} forums].'''</big> --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 03:20, 13 September 2008 (PDT)</center>-->
<div class="plainlinks" style="{{{extra-style|}}}; background-color: {{{bgcolor|#cedff2}}};  border: 1px solid {{{border-color|#a3b0bf}}}; width: {{{width|}}}; color: {{{color|black}}}; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: .5em 1em; clear: both;"><big><center>'''Welcome to the talk page of Bobnotts, aka Robert Nottingham.'''</center></big>


Feel free to leave questions and comments on this page about any contributions I've made to CPDL as a wiki editor or as a score editor/transcriber. You may also contact me by email: robertnottingham6 AT hotmail DOT com (replacing "AT" and "DOT" with "@" and ".") or on by sending me a private message on the [{{MediaWiki:Discussions-url}}/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose CPDL forums], username: bobnotts. If you're emailing me, please include "CPDL" at the beginning of the subject line to prevent your message being caught by the spam filter.
Feel free to leave questions and comments on this page about any contributions I've made to CPDL as a wiki editor or as a score editor/transcriber. You may also contact me by email: robertnottingham6{{@}}hotmail.com or by sending me a private message on the [{{MediaWiki:Discussions-url}}/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose CPDL forums], username: bobnotts. If you email me, please include "CPDL" somewhere in the subject line to prevent your message being caught by the spam filter.


'''Please use my talk page in the following manner:'''
'''Please use my talk page in the following manner:'''
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*'''continue discussions''' by clicking on the "edit" link directly right of the appropriate title below,
*'''continue discussions''' by clicking on the "edit" link directly right of the appropriate title below,
*[[ChoralWiki:Signatures|'''sign your posts''']] by typing four tildes afterwards (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>),
*[[ChoralWiki:Signatures|'''sign your posts''']] by typing four tildes afterwards (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>),
*and '''don't use [[Template:ItemPost]] on this page'''... thanks.
*and '''don't use [[Template:ItemPost]] or [[Template:Reply]] on this page'''... thanks.


If you have left a message on this page, I will reply here unless you request that I reply on your talk page. Because of this, you may find it useful to temporarily [{{fullurl:{{ns:3}}:{{PAGENAMEE}}|action=watch}} <span style="color: {{{linkcolor|#0000B6}}};"> watch this page</span>]. If I have left a message on your talk page, '''please reply there'''. I will have your talk page on my watch list and I watch the [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]] like a hawk so I'll see your message anyway. The reason for this is to keep the discussion together. Thank you for your co-operation!</div>
If you have left a message on this page, I will reply here unless you request that I reply on your talk page. Because of this, you may find it useful to temporarily [{{fullurl:{{ns:3}}:{{PAGENAMEE}}|action=watch}} <span style="color: {{{linkcolor|#0000B6}}};"> watch this page</span>]. If I have left a message on your talk page, '''please reply there'''. I will have your talk page on my watch list and I watch the [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]] like a hawk so I'll see your message anyway. The reason for this is to keep the discussion together. Thank you for your co-operation!</div>
 
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<div class="plainlinks" style="{{{extra-style|}}}; background-color: {{{bgcolor|#f2e0ce}}};  border: 2px solid {{{border-color|#bfb1a3}}}; width: {{{width|}}}; color: {{{color|black}}}; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: .5em 1em; clear: both;"><center><big>'''I am on holiday from Thursday 30th December 2010 - Monday 3rd January 2011'''<br>I may have intermittent internet access to read emails and answer messages left here but if not, I will reply as soon as possible when I return. For urgent queries, try asking another [[ChoralWiki:Administrators|administrator]].</big></center></div>
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'''Archives'''
'''Archives'''
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*[[/Archive 3|3 (February - July 2008)]]
*[[/Archive 3|3 (February - July 2008)]]
*[[/Archive 4|4 (May - November 2008)]]
*[[/Archive 4|4 (May - November 2008)]]
*[[/Archive 5|5 (November 2008 - February 2009)]]
*[[/Archive 6|6 (February - July 2009)]]
*[[/Archive 7|7 (July 2009 - August 2010)]]
*[[/Archive 8|8 (August 2010 - September 2011)]]
<br>
<br>
__TOC__
__TOC__


== Saving Scores from Cpdl.org ==
== Boyce's O praise the lord ==
 
Hello Bobnotts:
 
Greetings to you and yours. I have a particular problem regarding downlaoding scores. I downloaded Adobe Reader 9 to my computer, but when I try to open a score (eg. Father in Heav'n-Flemming), my computer keeps refering to Adobe 4, so I cannot see the score. Can i save the score without opening it, Then reopen in Adobe 9, so I can print the score. By the way, my Operating Systen is Windows Vista. Thank you for any information <small>—The preceding [[ChoralWiki:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Njemdi|Njemdi]] ([[User talk:Njemdi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Njemdi|contribs]]) on 18:41, 14 November 2008.</small>
 
: Hi Njemdi, please remember to sign your remarks by adding 4 "tilde" symbols, or pressing the equivalent signature button on the top of the page, otherwise nobody knows who you are. It seems that Rob (a.k.a. Bobnotts) is very busy with thousands of text replacements (he has found a new toy...). To save the score without opening it, right-click on the pdf icon and then select "save as...". I did it, and the file opened in Acrobat Reader 9 without any problems. I guess you have two versions of Adobe Acrobat installed, and this it may be rather tricky, especially if you installed an older version after having installed a newer one. I would suggest to re-install Acrobat 9. Max a.k.a. [[User:Choralia|Choralia]] 23:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 
::Njemdi, I'd try simply uninstalling all the versions of Acrobat Reader you have installed then reinstall the latest version. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 13:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 
== Liturgical music ==
Hi Rob,
I noticed your changes to [[Audit in evangelio (Tommaso Graziani)|Audit in evangelio]].  The concept of 'liturgical music' is of course so very vague it is pretty much asking for a discussion.  I've always interpreted 'motet' to be mass repertoire, whereas I've labelled pieces such as this one, for want of the term 'responsory' in the drop-down menu, as 'liturgical music'.  Much as I understand the ambiguity of those terms, I'd like to know if there's any kind of consensus as to the use of either term.  Cordially, [[User:Jkelecom|joachim]] 14:55, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
:Hi Joachim. Straight after doing that, I wondered whether I should just revert my edit as it occurred to me that I didn't really know what liturgical music is on CPDL. The sacred genres are an area of CPDL that needs some attention IMO. Anyway, I started a [http://choralwiki.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4284 thread on the forums] which I hope you'll be interested to contribute to. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 15:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 
== [[User talk:MistyMountain]] ==
 
Hi Rob, I noticed that you deleted Dedman's page per request. But what about his talk page? User:MistyMountain will exist "forever" on the system, and who knows, in the future he may decide to collaborate with CPDL in other ways, so I'm of the opinion that talk pages of ''registered users'' should always be kept. —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [http://choralwiki.net/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Carlos {{filepath:Email.gif}}] 16:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
:Fair enough. I've restored it. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 16:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 
== Byrd Mass for 4 in F minor ==
Rob,<br>
Done the Byrd 4-parter down in the good old Fellowesian key of F minor.  Had a young hotshot singer asking about the version down a 4th, so though I would do the 2 together.  --[[User:DaveF|DaveF]] 21:10, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks a lot, Dave. I know a lot of performances are at this pitch so I'm sure this transposition will be useful for others too. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 11:58, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 
== Ave Maria by S. Gangi ==
 
Hi Rob,
 
just saw that you have added the piece by Gangi to CPDL. The PDF file says that this work is registered with SIAE. Thus it may not be performed in the public without a license form SIAE (or its associates in other countries like PRS, GEMA etc.). In Germany, even religious use is forbidden without a license of the GEMA.
 
I have corrected the copyright from "CPDL" to "Personal" and added a copyright notice to avoid that visitors are fooled into believing that this piece may be freely performed (which might be a natural assumption when looking for scores on CPDL).
 
I personally think that this kind of licensing is inappropriate for CPDL, but this might be a minority view point. Nevertheless I hope you agree that we should make the licensing terms clear to visitors. If not, feel free to remove the copyright notice that I have added.
 
Thanks,


Chris
Bob


:Hi Chris. Thanks for your interest and diligence in this matter. The other admins agree that CPDL isn't the place for composers who wish to claim royalties from their works so they have been removed. There is another work by Gangi which he has re-uploaded since I deleted it. Max is in touch with him by email (since his first language is Italian) and I hope at least some of his works will be included at CPDL. I definitely agree that the license of a work or edition should be made abundantly clear to visitors and if you see a similar situation in the future, please take similar action. Many thanks --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 13:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Apologies but I ended up with the wrong composer for this work. Should be Boyce not Duron. I cant seem to correct. Will you please?


::Thanks for taking care of this problem and discussing it among the admins. Concerning free licenses for individual works, there is an important point to consider. In general, if composers decide to join a royalty collecting society, they must ransfer all their performance rights to the society. This means that they no longer have the right to define custom licensing terms for performance of their works. AFAIK, the GEMA (the German PRS) contract explicitly demands that the member transfers the performance rights of ''all'' of his/her works. Moreover, the GEMA forbids its members to publish under custom licenses (which is understandable, because keeping track of individual licensing terms for each work probably is an organisational nightmare). A choir in which I had sung actually was once bitten by this policy: a composer had given a composition to the choir director for free performance in a concert, but was apparently ignorant that when becoming a GEMA member, he had lost the right to do so; eventually the choir had to pay a hefty penalty fee for copyright infringement to the GEMA. If Max can read Italian, maybe he can have a look at the SIAE membership contract; I would guess that they have similar terms as the GEMA. Chris 19:06, 29 December 2008 (GMT)
Jonathan [[User:Jonathang|Jonathang]] 16:56, 28 October 2011 (CDT)
:Seems like this has already been done, Jonathan. For future reference, you can use the "move" command on the page to correct the page title and take the code from the Duron page and put it on the Boyce page instead (for example). --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 08:42, 31 October 2011 (CDT)


:::Thanks, Chris. I think this has been sorted out now - Mr Gangi's works that are on CPDL now are ones which he hasn't submitted to the SIAE. Apparently this is not in contravention of his contract with them. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 17:14, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
== Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs ==


== image file ==
Bob
As I had a spare 5 minutes (!) I had a play with the [[Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs]] page, hopefully fulfilling your request for reformatting of Dec 2007.


Robert,
If the work is to standard do I remove the Cleanup section, or will you beat me to it?


I would like to place a jpg image on my composer page, but when I attempt to upload, I get a notice that the file is corrupt or has the wrong extension. File uses .jpg extension, and is not corrupt to my knowledge. Help!  Also interested in learning how to add mp3 file to existing work. Add Works form can accommodate mp3, but Upload file does not permit the extension.[[User:Tweedfour|Tweedfour]] 04:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
[[User:Peter Gibson|Peter Gibson]] 17:25, 24 March 2012 (CDT)
:I've asked Carlos to look into this, Thurlow. I wouldn't have thought that it will take him too long to sort out the problem. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 17:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
:Oh that's great Peter, thanks. It's one of those pages I started and then didn't have time to finish off - very bad of me! I've made a couple of small alterations and removed the cleanup note. Keep up the good work! --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 06:41, 25 March 2012 (CDT)
::I thought you would get there first! I have just had a look at the rest of the  CfC pages; they look as if they need a similar treatment, but I can see a very good case for spreading the sortable table approach (as on [[Carols for Choirs 1]] ]. Would that idea need to be floated on the forums (fora?) first, or could I just go ahead as and when time allows (the coding change looks to be fairly trivial from an end-user editing point of view)? [[User:Peter Gibson|Peter Gibson]] 11:06, 25 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Ah I hadn't see the CFC1 page. No particular need to discuss such a change in the table coding. It's fairly trivial and the advantages of having the sortable table are considerable. By all means, alter the existing pages to make use of this. If someone objects, we can have the discussion at that stage. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 05:41, 26 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Eating lunch beside a computer has its advantages: the sortable table is spreading! On a slightly different, but related matter, there is a merge template on [[Carols for Choirs 1]] that appears to be broken, as it points to a page that does not exist. That does tend to snarl up any attempt at participating (or even starting) the discussion. [[User:Peter Gibson|Peter Gibson]] 13:05, 26 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I've fixed the link to the discussion page so that should work for you now. Please note that not many people see and respond to individual discussion on a publication page such as this so I would suggest you post your comments there, and if you don't receive any response in, say, a week, post on the forums as well. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 16:22, 26 March 2012 (CDT)


::Hi Thurlow, the necessary settings were added, and mp3 extension is now accepted for upload. Please try again and inform me if something goes wrong. [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] 21:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
==.capx==
Hello,
is it possible to implement the latest format of capella files(*.capx) in cpdl?
regardas W.D. Ebeling


== Hymn subcategories ==
== Tye's "I will exalt" ==


Robert,  As my hymn collection grows, there are going to be any number of hymns that are seasonal (Lent, Advent, Easter, etc.) as well as specific for Communion.  Would it be appropriate for me to arrange my hymns into subcategories as I did under Shape Notes?  I realise the "Category" code will automatically link things to Easter, etc, but for organisational purposes on the page I wondering if it might be helpful to music seekers to subcat.  It would be easy enough for me to re-organise the Hymn section of the page.[[User:Tweedfour|Tweedfour]] 20:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Bob


: Permit me to wade in here, since I've been somewhat the arbiter of the way hymns are handled here and also rather active in classifying sacred works by season.  If you are concerned about how to group works on your composer page, I think you have considerable latitude to make such groupings.  On a slightly different note, if one uses the code
I have just uploaded a corrected version of this, but it has not overwritten the old version, I now realise this is because my current log in is different from the one I used in 2006 and when I try to use the old log in I cant use the file name. How can this be corrected? [[User:Jgoodliffe|Jgoodliffe]] 01:49, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
: <pre>{{#dpl: category=Hymns|categorymatch=Lent%}}</pre>
: one obtains all works classified in {{CiteCat|Hymns}} and also in any of the Lent catetgories (as of the time of this posting, there are only two such hymns so classified - one by Thurlow Weed and one by myself!).  But making a ChoralWiki namespace page such as [[ChoralWiki:Lenten hymns]] and linking it both to {{CiteCat|Hymns}} and to {{CiteCat|Lent}} makes good sense (one could do the same with other combinations, much as was done for [[ChoralWiki:Music for the Advent and Christmas season]] which appeared on the Main Page. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 16:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


::What he said :-) --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 20:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
== moving categories? ==


:::Thanks for the input, Chuck.  I agree making seasonal categories for hymns would make sense.  You might also want to consider the most common "non-season," namely, Communion Hymns.  I've just come across a treasure trove of 1,215 annotated hymn texts published in 1893.  Even after the five hymns I wrote this w/e, there are currently 12 bookmarks; thus my question about organising hymns!
Hi Bob,


:::With regard to the above code, where would that be placed? I presume on the actual work page? As part of "Genre?"[[User:Tweedfour|Tweedfour]] 23:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I was considering moving Category:Marriage to Category:Wedding which seemed more precise, but of course there's no "move" choice on the dropdown menu for category pages. Is there another way to accomplish this without starting a new page from scratch? [[User:Richard Mix|Richard Mix]] ([[User talk:Richard Mix|talk]]) 17:34, 16 October 2012 (CDT)


== "Legend" template ==
:Hi Richard, perhaps I can give you a more thorough reply from the technical point of view: although not allowed by the wiki, I've tweaked the MediaWiki code a couple of years ago and category move worked fine for a while (until our wiki was upgraded). It can still be done if I rename the page directly in the database. But no matter which solution is chosen, renaming a category does not automatically make the categorized pages to be listed under the new name. They have to be changed one by one (or by running a [[Special:ReplaceText|ReplaceText]] instead). Regards, —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] ([[User talk:Carlos|talk]]) 10:48, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks Carlos; I think I can manage the Replace text. Before proceeding, does the proposed move seem a good idea to you, Bob? [[User:Richard Mix|Richard Mix]] ([[User talk:Richard Mix|talk]]) 13:49, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
:::Hi Richard. For me: yes. For others: maybe. I'd raise it on the forums and see what you get back. [[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 16:26, 27 October 2012 (CDT)


Hi Rob,
== O Most Merciful! O Most Bountiful! R. Heber/C. Woods ==


Have you noted [http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Template_talk:Legend this]? I'm not sure it is OK. Max a.k.a. --[[User:Choralia|Choralia]] 20:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Nottingham:


== Adding keyboard accomp tag to works ==
I saw your post of Charles Woods' setting of this Reginald Heber hymn. I enjoyed seeing the score and hearing the midi of it.


Hi,
Perhaps you are already aware of the setting found in the New English Hymnal, Canterbury Press, Norwich, hymn #301 (p. 663). It was recently recorded by Priory Records as part of their 23-vol. CD set, The Complete New English Hymnal, PRCD720, track 5.
I just wanted to bring this to your attention because, IMHO, it's a very beautiful setting.


I'm puzzled that you have added this recently to Brookfield (Billings) and China (Cuzens) (and maybe others!) - although the scores I posted didnot have any keyboard reductions (and I'm not sure that Billings and/or Cuzens would have approved !).
Mark Miller


Please can you explain to me.
[[User:Millermc|Millermc]] ([[User talk:Millermc|talk]]) 01:38, 19 October 2012 (CDT)
[[User:Tim Henderson|Tim Henderson]] 23:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
:Hi Mark. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have a listen when I get chance. Cheers [[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 16:27, 27 October 2012 (CDT)
:Hi Tim. My mistake - I assumed that because these scores have been labelled as hymns, they would usually be performed with some sort of keyboard accompaniment. Please do change these to <tt><nowiki>{{acap}}</nowiki></tt> if that is appropriate. Every score page should have an [[Help:CPDL_Templates#Accompaniment_templates|accompaniment template]], even if this is <tt><nowiki>{{acap}}</nowiki></tt> - this is a problem that I've been trying to correct. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 13:35, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


:Hi, Thanks for clearing it up. Much of Billings in the "Sacred Harp" tradition is nowadays performed acapella with the four parts belting it out around the "hollow square" containing the leader - although it may well be that in his time the parts were supported by whatever instruments the parish had at its disposal as in the West Gallery tradition that much of my other stuff comes from. I'll chnage them to acap.
== Template:Composer page/preload ==
:Is it possible to include an accompaniment/acapella option that forces a choice to be made in the "automated" works entry form ?[[User:Tim Henderson|Tim Henderson]] 15:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Bob,
I made a boob in creating a composer page for Alfred J Caldicott. The Template:Composer page/preload has appeared in the 1842 birth and 1897 death pages. Can you remove this for me?
--[[User:IanHaslam|IanHaslam]] 19:23, 2 November 2012‎


== [[User:Enrico Vercesi]] ==
:Hi Ian, no problem, it's already fixed. Please remember to sign your messages with a sequence of four tildes at the end. Thank you. —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]] ([[User talk:Carlos|talk]]) 19:43, 2 November 2012 (CDT)


Hi Rob, usually I create pages as the one cited above when I need to add some usefull information not found on the composer page, as his contact email. I do it because people downloading his works may want to contact him for some reason. Shouldn't his email be included in his composer page, then? I think the Category:Editors could well stay on the User page, below the redirect. Another thing one must not forget to do in these cases is to create a redirect from the composer talk page back to the user talk page. [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [[User talk:Carlos|<sub><font size="5">✉</font></sub>]] 16:25, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Bob,
:Yes, you're right Carlos. I thought I'd included his email address on his composer page... apparently not. Now that we have more control over the wiki, it might be a good time to change the categorisation of contributors/editors/composers. I remember discussing somewhere that it's wrong to exclude contributors of texts/translations or biographies from getting a user page and labelling it "editor". How about "Category:CPDL contributors"? --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 16:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Can something be done about the requests page. It seems to be clogged with requests which have been completed but have not been removed. Is it also possible to date requests as some of them are now quite a few years old and I suspect the need has gone away. Consequently new requirements which could have an immediate use will never get picked up in time. As a contributor I would be happy to prioritise a score, if it will be of use to somebody.[[User:IanHaslam|IanHaslam]] ([[User talk:IanHaslam|talk]]) 21:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)


== Spacing in Editor template ==
== Links lead to (harmless) spam ==


Hi Rob.  I see you put back in three nbsp's in {{CiteTemp|Editor}} - after I had reduced the number to two. I disasgree with your changing it back to three on a couple of grounds: (1) "Style" manuals I'm familiar with recommend (or prescribe) only two spaces; (2) making all the spaces (especially the last one) nbsp's means that any other space that appears after the template and before the next item will be piled upon the three already there - at very least, the ''last'' space should NOT be an nbsp.  If you insist on three (which I seriously object to), then at least make the three spaces be one nbsp followed by two ordinary spaces (wiki treats more than three ordinary spaces as a double space).  Of course, I'd much prefer it to be just one nbsp and one ordinary space. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 23:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
It appears that links to Frank Nordbergs postings have been tampered with.
Otherwise (and more importantly!) thanks for all your work and have a very Merry Christmas. [[User:RMD|RMD]] ([[User talk:RMD|talk]]) 09:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


:Hi Chuck. I wasn't aware of a new style manual for CPDL. The style which has been in place as long as I can remember is to have 3 spaces after the date in edition info. I understand your second point, though I don't understand why anyone would put a space in between the editor template and the "ScoreInfo" or "Copy" templates. In any case, I have altered the editor template to include a normal space, followed by a forced space, followed by another normal space. There should now be a maximum of 3 spaces after the date in any circumstance. I'm not entirely sure why you're so keen to implement a change to the style which has a minimal effect but I am sure that any such change should only be implemented when it can be done universally. There are many score pages which don't use the editor template so these would be inconsistent. I think we should only start discussing style when we have complete control over it. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 13:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
== Webbe's ''When winds breathe soft'' ==
I've noticed a few minor typos in you edition of this.<br>
Bar 5: Alto - beathe for breathe<br>
Bar 22: Alto - stonger for stronger<br>
Bars 22-25: All parts - wave should be waves, the sense being ''A stronger gale awakes the troubled waves'' <br>
Bar 60: Tenor I - raing for raging <br>
Bar 75: Tenor I - missing slur<br>
Bar 98: Alto - comma should be after say, for consistency.<br>
Bar 101: Bass - brest for breast<br>


:: HI Rob.  I appreciate where you are coming from.  In case you hadn't noticed, I've begun putting the Editor template on all score pages which have scores with submission dates since 2005 (2005, 2007, 2008 are essentially complete - next is 2006).  Once these are done, I'll begin working backwards until all the score pages have Editor templates on them.  In the course of doing this I've made some modifications (extensions) to the template, such as one that allows for alternate wording, such as "Contributor" for "Editor".
In addition, the British Minstrel version of this piece has a trill on T1 stur- in bar 68, but you may well have worked from another version, (if you can still remember what you were doing in 2006!)<br>
:: As for not seeing why "anyone" would put a space after the Editor template ... well, I have put one space after it and before "Score information" or the ScoreInfo template - on the grounds that it makes the code more legible (cramming one template after another with no space between them does not lend itself to legibility).  One nbsp followed by two ordinary spaces will not cause the extra (ordinary) space that I have inserted to be converted to a fourth space in the output - but one nbsp between two ordinary spaces in the template will cause the extra (ordinary) space I've added to be converted in the output - so, I'm changing it to one nbsp followed by two ordinary ones.
[[User:Jamesgibb|Jamesgibb]] ([[User talk:Jamesgibb|talk]]) 10:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
:: As for uniformity across CPDL on such things - this does indeed vary widely, especially for those (mostly in the past, but some in the present) who do their own posting (rather than using the output from the addworks mechanism) ... how many times have we removed extra blank lines, which the wiki inserts after the first one (the first blank line functions more like a line break with a little more vertical space).
:: I guess I wonder when and where you think we should start with putting some style decisions into place, especially for those which require considerable hands-on editing (such as the Editor template which cannot be put in with a simple ReplaceText).  My own opinion is that we should start sometime sooon(rather than never or very much later), and in the case of the Editor template, my current efforts will soon cover rather more than half the number of editions.
:: My work on inserting the editor template has also been aimied at making some sense out of the {{CiteCW|New scores archive}}, which generates info with DPL (via the categorization provided by the Editor template).  Ah, well, things for ruminating and discussing further!! -- Chuck


:::Hi Rob and Chuck, let me step in here too, because this subject also preoccupies me. I've seen both of you doing a lot of repetitive edits lately, and I didn't know how to say it, but if you could wait a bit more, we may find a tool that will do this kind of job for us. It will be basically the same as ReplaceText, but with the ability to use Regular Expressions for advanced search/replace, as I already do in UltraEdit when editing works pages. I found one such tool by chance, while testing the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multi-Category_Search Extension:Multi-Category Search]. The tool is called [http://dotnetwikibot.sourceforge.net/ DotNetWikiBot Framework] and seems to be easy to use yet a powerful editor. It just happens that I don't have right now the time to test it; I intend to do it after (1) I finish the Add Work/Add Edition forms; and (2) finish the development of a couple of "encapsulation" templates for edition and work input data, in order to isolate the data from the page style. I saw that Chuck and others before him have made experiments with similar templates, I don't know why it hasn't evolved into something practical. After we have such templates ready, it would be time to put this ''dotnetwikibot'' to work, editing virtually all CPDL works pages to introduce the new templates in them. If any of you has the time and will, I invite you to begin studying this bot: how to install, run and customize it. [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [[User talk:Carlos|<sub><font size="5">✉</font></sub>]] 16:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:Hi James. Thanks very much for the corrections! Rather disappointed in myself for not proofing better... I'll fix those soon. Have you performed the piece recently? (Well - not recently because your message is from June but you know what I mean!) --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 09:11, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


:::: Hi folks.  Carlos, I think the work of mine you are referring to is that dealing with "data structures" and with "variable templates" - ie. templates as actual parameters, not quite the same thing as "template variables".  This work is still going on (just not online at the moment, since I'm trying to get the CPDL organizational document done).  Indeed, I've been wishing for an extension that does "replacetext" with regular expressions, so that large scale changes could be done.  My work with the Editor template was spurred on by the need to have the Archive (NewScoresLog) fulfill its purpose.  I'm hoping we can wait on some of the other things until I can roll out my proposed changes for CPDL data structures (different ones for composers, editors, scores, translations, etc.) that can interact through templates passed to these data structures that make it poossible to produce, say, both the entry on a composer page and the entry on a works page for an edition from just one data structure. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 20:04, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
== To Gratiana Dancing and Singing - W Denis Browne ==


:::::Chuck: going back to the original point, take a look at [[Großer Gott, wir loben Dich (Manfred Hößl)|this page]]. It's not formatted correctly because the templates don't have any spaces between them in the code. I believe new score pages are created in this way too. The score pages that you've edited have the right spacing after the date because of the changes made to the editor template, but other pages are now not formatted correctly. Is there a solution that we can implement into the editor template so that no matter what follows the template on a score page, the spacing will be correct?
Hi, I don't know if you can help but back in June I created a transposed version of the above song (in Gmaj) and submitted it two CPDL. They appear in my account thus -
:::::By the way, the NewScoresLog will be a very useful tally when it's complete. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 12:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
23:07, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small - Full Score.pdf ‎ (current)
23:05, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small.sib ‎ (current)


::::::If I'm not mistaken, the wiki converts any number of normal spaces into a single one for viewing (never as a double space). The way to accomplish what Rob suggests would be then to have in the template either "space + nbsp + space" or "nbsp + nbsp + space". [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [[User talk:Carlos|<sub><font size="5">✉</font></sub>]] 13:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
but they are not on the main site. Is there a reason? Thanks Peter H


::::: Carlos is right, I was wrong in believing that two or more (ordinary) spaces are treated as a double space - they are interpreted as a single space.  I still think that double spacing (as opposed to triple spacing which, at least to me, has always looked bad) is more than adequate between the Editor info and the Score info (or Copyright info when the latter is missing) - but I guess we'll have to postpone that discussion until later.  I've changed the Editor template back to sp nbsp sp.  But with this change, if the template is followed by a space, that space is inserted, too - I'm not sure why (although I have my suspicions), but I'll experiment a bit to see if that can be remedied. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 14:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
PS


::::: Okay, I found and fixed the problem:  don't put an includeonly at the very end (after the spacing information), since that will break any spacing information; also, it's better with the spacing information moved entirely outside the switch statement.  Now the question of aesthetics is:  which of the following looks the best?
Although I appear to be logged in, at least enough for me to be able to write this message, the CPDL site refuses to recognise either my username or my email address, in spite of the fact that I have received eMails from CPDL. --[[user:PeterHarris|PeterHarris]] 12:00, 7 October 2014‎
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''. '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes {{Copy|CPDL}}
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''.&nbsp; '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes&nbsp; {{Copy|CPDL}}
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''. &nbsp; '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes &nbsp; {{Copy|CPDL}}
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''. '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes. {{Copy|CPDL}}
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''.&nbsp; '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes.&nbsp; {{Copy|CPDL}}
# '''Editor:''' [[User:Brian Russell|Brian Russell]] ''(added 2006-02-09)''. &nbsp; '''Score information:''' Letter, 2 pages, 30 kbytes. &nbsp; {{Copy|CPDL}}
::::: In the last three, I added a period after kbytes (which has always been strangely missing and really should be there, since the Copyright info follows immediately inline). -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 15:37, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


::::::I genuinely prefer the sixth option but if you insist, Chuck, I could be persuaded to go along with the fifth. I agree that a period after the kbytes makes sense. However, I do think that we should only introduce these changes when we have control over '''all''' score pages with use of the templates. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 22:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:Rob, this has been sorted out by me. Regards, [[User:Carlos|Carlos]] [[File:Email.gif|link=User talk:Carlos]] 17:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)


== Singing different texts simultaneously ==
::Thanks, Carlos --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 19:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


Dear Bob,
== Writing a dissertation focusing on CPDL ==
I achieved a long cycle of transcriptions of latin (even multilingual) texts from scores to score pages, with the help of Joachim.
I left two groups of scores without text:
1. Broken links (nothing to do),
2. Scores that have different texts below the staves in each system, like [http://maucamedus.net/PDF/amor-potest.pdf that]
(from [http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Amor_potest_-_Ad_amorem_(Anonymous) that page]) for example, or [http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/3/3e/Johannes_Ciconia_Petrum_Marcellum.pdf that one].
Do musicologists agree that different texts were sung simultaneously
or is it a mistake (text sung successively or coming from different works)?
I don’t know how to manage that.
If someone may help.
Feel free to correct these lines if necessary.- [[User:Claude T|Claude]] 11:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


:Hi Claude. From my limited knowledge of early music, I'd say that the text should indeed be sung simultaneously. In terms of how to present texts like this on a score page, it's probably a good idea to transcribe the soprano text completely (labelling it "Soprano") then the alto's text after it, labelled appropriately as well, etc. I can only think of one other situation when it looks like each part is singing a different text at the same time - in some editions of hymns in particular, verse 1 is printed under the soprano line, verse 2 under the alto line, verse 3 under the tenor, etc. In this case, all the music should be repeated for each verse in order. I hope this helps. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 15:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


:Claude & Bob: Many pieces esp. 14th C. and earlier manuscripts have multiple sets of words. It is especially true in contrapuncti. There is varying opinion as to just exactly how they are to be (or were) performed. Depending on the individual piece, it is usually pretty clear if it is a case of multiple verses to be sung, repeating the piece. Often different texts are sung at the same time, with the long melismas making the text unclear or indistinct anyway. Sometimes a line of text is sung and the other parts were originally instrumental (or words were adapted to a completely instrumental piece). In the examples you cite, there is a typical appearance where no text appears for certain voices or certain sections of the piece. Either borrowing the words from another voice in similar rhythmic pattern or was play on continuo etc. It may not be necessary to delineate which voice has the words, but you could list the soprano set first, then other lyrics, or do it line by line with additional voices indented underneath the lead voice (soprano/cantus). No hard and fast rule here. Hope this helps. -Paul Marchesano.([[User:Marchesa|Marchesa]] 05:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC))
Dear Mr. Nottingham,
My name is Cindy Bauchspies and I am currently a doctoral candidate in Choral Conducting at the University of Maryland, hoping to finish this semester. The focus of my dissertation project will be the Choral Public Domain Library (cpdl.org)l as a valuable and underutilized resource for high school choral conductors, with the goal of creating an anthology (of 10-20 pieces) of the best editions from the cpdl site that are "must haves" for any excellent high school choral program.


== Opera tutelata da diritti SIAE ==
My question for you is how the administrators are selected for cpdl? Are there certain requirements (I noticed all of them have editions on the site)? Are there certain credentials required? It looks like there are currently 11 administrators (http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/ChoralWiki:Administrators), and they are all volunteers, correct? I have read several of the discussion on the forum site and am impressed with how quickly and efficiently questions are answered. How is that managed?


Hi Rob,
I would like to include a chapter that answers all of these questions (and other questions that the site answers). My goal with this chapter is to represent cpdl as accurately and succinctly as possible. To that end, is there an administrator who might be willing to read this chapter once it is in rough draft form to make sure all the information is correct?


sorry for being a nuisance WRT licensing issues, but I have just seen that the piece "O nata lux" (C. Gentilini) added recently by you carries the notice "Opera tutelata da diritti SIAE" in the footer. This means that public performance of this piece ''is not allowed'', unless a performance license is purchased from SIAE. I have corrected the copyright type from "CPDL" to "Personal".
The Choral Public Domain Library s an amazing resource and a treasure trove of some of the greatest choral music ever written (and for FREE!) , and it is my hope that this dissertation will be an aid to those high school choral educators who want to use the site more, but may find it overwhelming at first.


Maybe it is time for those of us who actually want to contribute to a "creative commons" to move to a different plaform than CPDL? Unfortunately Mutopia only accepts submissions in Lilypond format, which I had tried to avoid so far. Do you know of other platforms that only collect music that may be used freely?
Thank you so much for your time.


--[[User:Cdalitz|Cdalitz]] 11:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Sincerely,


:Thanks for letting me know, Chris. This is a bit of a sticky situation at the moment since we (the transition committee) are still trying to establish policy for CPDL for the future. However, until I hear back from the gang, I've deleted the file in question and marked the score links as broken. I agree with what I think is your viewpoint, that CPDL shouldn't host works by composers who want to make some money out of them. Registering works with the SIAE seems like a clear indication of this and in any case it puts CPDL in a difficult position since it seems that hosting this composer's works violates his agreement with the SIAE.
Cindy Bauchspies
:I suggest that you need look no further than CPDL to host and/or index your works - this is the no.1 source of free vocal sheet music on the web and it will continue to be both the best source and a free source. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 22:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
DMA (ABD), University of Maryland


== A tip and a suggestion ==
Director, Women's Glee Club
United States Naval Academy
Alumni Hall, 675 Decatur Road
U.S. Naval Academy
Annapolis, MD 21402-5086
Tel: (410) 293-2439


Hi Rob! I'll begin with the tip: when creating redirects, if you leave the summary field empty, the wiki will automatically fill it in for you with a nice summary like "Redirecting to [[Main Page]]". :)<br>
== Increasing universal access to CPDL via MusicXML ==
The suggestion is related to what I have commented on the forum in the DotNetWikiBot topic: the ReplaceText tool was very usefull when whe had almost no other options, but it also has its limitations. To introduce the Genre template in pages, the ideal would be that we simultaneously removed the [Category:Madrigals] from the page, and RemoveText can't do it properly. Now we have two alternatives that can do it properly: SQL queries (the first query logs in a temporary table all pages that need to be changed; the second replaces the old text by the template; then a third query removes the category entry from the pages logged in the temporary table). The other alternative, DotNetWikiBot, is somewhat simpler and less "technical" but creates a new revision of each page edited. Later today I'm planning to give more details in the forum on how it can be accomplished, taking the Genre template as example, ok? I know that you're not exactly a "programmer guy" but I believe you'll like to use the bot after you learn its (few) secrets. ;) —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]]&nbsp;[{{carlos}} {{mail}}] 17:26, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
:Hi Rob, I take back what I said: I found it's quite easy to remove categories via SQL queries from pages that received a new template, and have already removed [Category:Madrigals] from the pages you edited. So, please go ahead with the ReplaceTexts if you want! Just let me know later which replaces have been done so that I may remove the related categories. —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]]&nbsp;[{{carlos}} {{mail}}] 19:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


::Hi Carlos. Thanks for the redirect tip. I guess that's one of the many improvements we got with a software update! As for the DotNet box thing vs. the extension, I don't mind if you want to go down the minimal edits route - it makes sense if the bot can do lots of things at once to a score page. I'll hang fire on the ReplaceText unless it's for something other than adding templates. I'll be glad to hear what we can do with the bot. One very useful thing would be if it could fix score icons (eg. when there should be a {{net}} when we've got a combination of {{pdf}} {{mid}} and the source file name). I've no idea if that's doable or not but I'm sure you'll be able to investigate! --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 00:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Dear Robert,


== Mery Yt Ys ==
I'm writing you to ask about CPDL's policy on MusicXML files. I believe that contributors to CPDL should be strongly encouraged to make their music available in MusicXML format, for reasons of universal access for blind and visually impaired people who require the use of assistive devices to consume music notation.


Greetings Bob.
Depending on their level of visual impairment, users may require the use of Modified Stave Notation (which you can think of in general terms as "large print music", though there are specific guidelines about how MSN should be prepared, per the UK Association for Accessible Formats), braille music, and talking scores.


Thanks for alerting me to the problems with my submission. I apologize for taking so long to catch up again. Can you advise what I need to do to make the submission acceptable? Thanks.
Modified Stave Notation is generally tailored for an individual user, since users with partial sight have a wide variety of impairments, and there is no "one size fits all" approach for MSN. Typically MSN is produced by entering the music into one of the existing scoring programs, modified by way of importing a house style or set of libraries that modify many parameters of the music's appearance (stave line thickness, stem thickness, stave size, rhythm dot size, choice of text fonts, choice of paper size, etc. etc.), and then printed out. Due to the unique needs of each user, it is very important that a user should be able to access the music in an interchangeable representation, so that it can be opened in the scoring application available to them, and modified to meet their needs. You can read more about MSN in the UKAAF publication that describes the format as an accessible PDF, [http://www.ukaaf.org/guidancedocuments/pdf/g009/finish here].


Kittybriton aka [[User:Lil Miss Picky|Lil Miss Picky]] 00:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Braille music is made using a variety of tools, to lesser or greater degrees of success. The [http://delysid.org/freedots.html Freedots project] is an Open Source MusicXML to braille tool, while the [http://standalone.music4vip.org/en/musicxml_to_bmml/conversion_step_1 VIP MusicXML to BMML online converter] is one outcome of an EU-funded research project and is free to use. Probably the most successful braille music toolset is to open music in Lime and then send it to Goodfeel, a commercial toolset developed by [http://www.dancingdots.com Dancing Dots]. If no interchangeable source music is available, then the music must first be input into Lime or another scoring application; given the poor state of accessibility in most scoring software, this generally requires the assistance of a sighted person, and thus immediately reduces access to this music.


:Hi Kitty. Thanks for getting back to me. Basically, the code (ABC notation?) which is currently on [[Mery yt ys (Anonymous)]] needs to be in an ABC file rather than on the wiki page. I assume that the ABC software works in a similar way to LilyPond whereby the notation file is effectively a text file with the right file extension. I can create a score page for the work, but I don't know anything about ABC so it would be great if you could make an ABC source file and a MIDI file from the code currently on the page. There's already a PDF linked from the [[Anonymous]] page. Thanks --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 23:42, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Talking scores are useful for people with severe enough visual impairment that MSN is not useful for them, but for whom learning braille music is difficult or impossible, especially for people who lose their sight later in life. No matter your age, learning braille is a daunting challenge. only around half of all blind people can read literary braille, and a smaller proportion still can read the music braille code. UKAAF is working on a new set of guidelines to specify a system for the automatic, computerised transcription of music notation into an accessible verbal description that can be read by assistive technologies such as screen readers and Voice Over on iOS devices. In the past, talking scores have been produced as "scores on tape", transcribed by a sighted person onto an audio cassette. The RNIB, for example, has produced around two dozen talking scores on tape, which are available to borrow from their Music Advisory Service, but the amount of labour required to produce each one is so large that the process of creating them does not scale. Again, a blind person cannot reasonably produce a talking score on his or her own, but if the music is available in an interchangeable format such as MusicXML, then that person can use a software tool to produce a talking score without sighted assistance. You can find some information about the concept behind talking scores [http://www.rnib.org.uk/cy/information-everyday-living-home-and-leisure-music-reading-music-accessible-formats/talking-scores on the RNIB's web site]


== Editor vs. contributor ==
As well as being part of Steinberg's London-based team working on a new commercial scoring application, I am part of the UKAAF's Music Subject Area team, and it is through that role that I am currently focused on the production of guidelines for talking scores, and prototype software that embodies these rules. There are other free software projects ongoing, particularly from the developers of MuseScore (who have beefed up their application's capabilities for producing MSN; are working to make the application itself more accessible to screen readers; are trying to resuscitate the Freedots project and host it online; and are also working on a web service that will allow a PDF to be uploaded to a hosted OMR engine – based on Audiveris – and produce a MusicXML file on demand), that are working to increase universal access to music notation.
Hi Bob.  I'm about to contribute a few scores edited by a friend of mine.  How do I go about this if I want *his* name to appear as a hyperlink to a list of *his* scores, rather than to my contributor page?  Cordially, [[User:Jkelecom|joachim]] 14:10, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
:Hi Joachim, I think Rob won't mind if I reply for him; you may go ahead and add the new editions, just put your friend's name in the editor field (with the Editor template it will look something like <nowiki>{{Editor|friend's name|2008-02-01}}</nowiki>). After you save the work's page, click on your friend's name red link and you'll be directed to his user page. Paste the following code in that page and save: <nowiki>{{subst:ChoralWiki:User template}}</nowiki>. Now edit the user page again, add any relevant information about him and that's all! —[[User:Carlos|Carlos]]&nbsp;[{{carlos}} {{mail}}] 15:21, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


== Translation request ==
The single technology that links all of these efforts is MusicXML. For all of its imperfections, it is the de facto standard for the interchange of symbolic music notation information. Most of the applications used by contributors to CPDL are capable of exporting MusicXML files. Those contributors who already share their binary source files in Sibelius, Finale, or whatever other proprietary formats should be strongly encouraged to create MusicXML versions of those pieces and to upload those as well.


Hi Rob. Here you go:
I would also encourage you to include a simple means of searching for scores uploaded in MusicXML format via your advanced search features, to help users in need of accessible formats find them more quickly.


VOOR IEDERE PARTITUUR HET FORMULIER SLECHTS EENMAAL INVULLEN, AUB.  De software genereert een cpdl-volgnummer voor uw partituur wanneer u het formulier verstuurt - er komen dus een aantal overbodige nummers op de lijst indien u dit meer dan eens doet.  Het publiceren van de partituren gebeurt door vrijwilligers, en het kan dus even duren eer u uw bijdrage terugvindt op cpdl; u moet hier even geduld voor oefenen.  Bent u bij het invullen informatie vergeten te vermelden, dan zet u dit beter recht met een mail (bij voorkeur in het Engels) naar addscore (at) cpdl.org - ook hiervoor hoeft u het formulier dus geen tweede keer in te vullen.
I welcome your feedback, and would love to know what further steps I might take, if any, to push for positive change in further opening up the incredible resource that is CPDL to visually impaired musicians.


Ideally, though, this warning would also appear (if it were only in English) on the actual form, don't you think?  Cordially, [[User:Jkelecom|joachim]] 18:00, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
With all best wishes,


:Hi Rob, here we are with the Italian version.
Daniel Spreadbury (dspreadbury)


:''PER FAVORE NON RIEMPITE IL MODULO "ADD WORKS" PIU' DI UNA VOLTA PER UNA STESSA EDIZIONE. Una volta inviato il modulo viene generato un unico numero CPDL che diventa obsoleto se il modulo viene prodotto una seconda volta per la stessa edizione. Dei volontari riceveranno il modulo che avete inviato e lo pubblicheranno nel contesto wiki entro qualche tempo - per favore siate pazienti. Se avete dimenticato di includere qualche informazione la prima volta che lo avete inviato, per favore scrivete una mail a addscore (at) cpdl.org con i dettagli piuttosto che inviare il modulo nuovamente. Tra i volontari che gestiscono i moduli ci sono persone che comprendono l'italiano, quindi potete scrivere la mail in italiano se è più facile per voi. Grazie.''
:Hi Daniel. It sounds like a good format for inclusivity. I'm not that closely involved in CPDL's management these days. May I suggest you present your suggestions to a wider audience via the [http://forums.cpdl.org/phpBB3/ CPDL Forums]? Many more people will see your message and you'll be able to engage in discussion with them all. Thanks --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 22:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


:Please note: I've added a phrase saying that some volunteers managing the forms are able to understand Italian (Carlos actually does, and I can also help if necessary), so emails to addscore (at) cpdl.org may be written in Italian if it's easier for the contributor. I hope you agree with this. If not, just remove the phrase "Tra i volontari... ".  [[User:Choralia|Choralia]] 09:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
== Errors in Elgar's 'How Calmly' ==


::Hi Rob, after reading Max' translation, I think I ought to mention that the Dutch version urges people to mail in English.  If you disagree (I'd be willing to translate should the case present itself, of course), just omit <i>(bij voorkeur in het Engels)</i>. [[User:Jkelecom|joachim]] 09:26, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi Bob


:::Thanks both of you for those translations - I've added them to the page. Hopefully that will make an impact. You both made the right call with the language of emails - as you say, Max, Carlos can translate the Italian if we need it but no-one on the admin team speaks Dutch so it's probably best to stick to English even if it's not the contributor's first language. If you know anyone who would be able to translate the English text into another language (German? Spanish?) that would be really useful - thanks! --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 10:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Great score. However there are a few errors


== CPDL #18861 ==
Bar 9, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat
Hi Rob.  The score in question belongs [[Mon coeur se recommande à vous (attributed to Lassus)|here]], actually.  I'd have done it myself, but I haven't got a clue as to how move things about in wiki environments.  Cordially, [[User:Jkelecom|joachim]] 19:23, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Bar 37, Piano lower 3rd note bass clef, C should be an E flat
:Thanks Joachim. I've fixed this now. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 10:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Bar 45, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat


== Tisokuan's scores ==
Regards


Hi Rob.  Tisokuan seems to maintain the website for the Aeolian Consort - an early instrumental group.  Such groups frequently perform choral scores.  Recently, one of my CPDL editions was converted to a recorder piece (with my blessing) and posted elsewhere.  Tisokuan has made several choral/instrumental editions (which came first, I'm not sure), and they have been posted here, albeit with the somewhat awkward route that provides us with a link to the instrumental editions which then link to the choral editions.  I caught your ScoreError and removed it, with a note on how to locate the choral score.  Maybe such a note should be posted in the edition notes of other Tisokuan editions? -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 20:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Ian
:Hmmm yeah thanks for pointing that out. Maybe the best solution would be to just link directly to the web page that has the choral scores listed on it, rather than the instrumental scores? We could achieve that with the [[Template:Website|website template]], of course. --[[User:Bobnotts|Bobnotts]] <small>[[User talk:Bobnotts|'''talk''']]</small> 21:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


:: Linking to the Choral page (using {{CiteTemp|website|br=}}) at his website would be the best solution.  The only question is whether Tisokuan would mind us doing that. -- [[User:CHGiffen|Chuck]][[User talk:CHGiffen|<sub><small>'''talk'''</small></sub>]]&nbsp;[[User:Charles H. Giffen|Giffen]][[Charles H. Giffen|<sub>'''♫'''</sub>]] 16:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
== 'Anthems' ==


== Scores not found ==
Hi Bob,


Hi, Bob, On [http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/ChoralWiki:Spanish_text_requests that page], you will see, under A, B, C and D letters, many scores to which I cannot have access.
I was just contemplating (after editing [[Talk:William Boyce]]) adding a {{CC|Full anthems}} sub-category and wonder if you have a rationale (or even second thoughts) about listing subcategorized works in [[:Category:Anthems]]? Handel I think would remain in parent category, and someone might figure out what 'anthem' translates from Russian… [[User:Richard Mix|Richard Mix]] ([[User talk:Richard Mix|talk]]) 00:42, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
I noticed Adrian Cuello's site may have changed, but it seems that all this scores aren't on the new site. Could you please check this and put broken link templates if necessary? Many thanks in advance. Cordially, - [[User:Claude T|Claude]] 11:01, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


== Again about SIAE etc. ==
== Epiphany to All Saints for Choirs ==


Hi Rob, I've noted that you are proposing for deletion a work by Cristian Gentilini, as it cannot be performed without permission from SIAE. As discussed already on the forums, I personally disagree on deleting pages in such conditions, as there are some circumstances, foreseen by the copyright laws, where a copyrighted work can be used without permission from anybody (i.e., the composer or the association in charge of managing the intellectual property rights on behalf of the composer). By removing the works, we make impossible all uses, including those not requiring any permission. I'd rather prefer leaving the works available, but adding a clear disclaimer when attempting to download the score (similarly to IMSLP). [[User:Choralia|Choralia]] 12:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
It's only taken 12 years, but I've finally inserted a sortable table for the Carol book contents, and deleted the Cleanup tag! How long will it take to clean up all the red-linked people I've added in the process? [[User:Peter Gibson|Peter Gibson]] ([[User talk:Peter Gibson|talk]]) 18:06, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:06, 14 December 2019

Archives


Boyce's O praise the lord

Bob

Apologies but I ended up with the wrong composer for this work. Should be Boyce not Duron. I cant seem to correct. Will you please?

Jonathan Jonathang 16:56, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

Seems like this has already been done, Jonathan. For future reference, you can use the "move" command on the page to correct the page title and take the code from the Duron page and put it on the Boyce page instead (for example). --Bobnotts talk 08:42, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs

Bob As I had a spare 5 minutes (!) I had a play with the Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs page, hopefully fulfilling your request for reformatting of Dec 2007.

If the work is to standard do I remove the Cleanup section, or will you beat me to it?

Peter Gibson 17:25, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Oh that's great Peter, thanks. It's one of those pages I started and then didn't have time to finish off - very bad of me! I've made a couple of small alterations and removed the cleanup note. Keep up the good work! --Bobnotts talk 06:41, 25 March 2012 (CDT)
I thought you would get there first! I have just had a look at the rest of the CfC pages; they look as if they need a similar treatment, but I can see a very good case for spreading the sortable table approach (as on Carols for Choirs 1 ]. Would that idea need to be floated on the forums (fora?) first, or could I just go ahead as and when time allows (the coding change looks to be fairly trivial from an end-user editing point of view)? Peter Gibson 11:06, 25 March 2012 (CDT)
Ah I hadn't see the CFC1 page. No particular need to discuss such a change in the table coding. It's fairly trivial and the advantages of having the sortable table are considerable. By all means, alter the existing pages to make use of this. If someone objects, we can have the discussion at that stage. --Bobnotts talk 05:41, 26 March 2012 (CDT)
Eating lunch beside a computer has its advantages: the sortable table is spreading! On a slightly different, but related matter, there is a merge template on Carols for Choirs 1 that appears to be broken, as it points to a page that does not exist. That does tend to snarl up any attempt at participating (or even starting) the discussion. Peter Gibson 13:05, 26 March 2012 (CDT)
I've fixed the link to the discussion page so that should work for you now. Please note that not many people see and respond to individual discussion on a publication page such as this so I would suggest you post your comments there, and if you don't receive any response in, say, a week, post on the forums as well. --Bobnotts talk 16:22, 26 March 2012 (CDT)

.capx

Hello, is it possible to implement the latest format of capella files(*.capx) in cpdl? regardas W.D. Ebeling

Tye's "I will exalt"

Bob

I have just uploaded a corrected version of this, but it has not overwritten the old version, I now realise this is because my current log in is different from the one I used in 2006 and when I try to use the old log in I cant use the file name. How can this be corrected? Jgoodliffe 01:49, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

moving categories?

Hi Bob,

I was considering moving Category:Marriage to Category:Wedding which seemed more precise, but of course there's no "move" choice on the dropdown menu for category pages. Is there another way to accomplish this without starting a new page from scratch? Richard Mix (talk) 17:34, 16 October 2012 (CDT)

Hi Richard, perhaps I can give you a more thorough reply from the technical point of view: although not allowed by the wiki, I've tweaked the MediaWiki code a couple of years ago and category move worked fine for a while (until our wiki was upgraded). It can still be done if I rename the page directly in the database. But no matter which solution is chosen, renaming a category does not automatically make the categorized pages to be listed under the new name. They have to be changed one by one (or by running a ReplaceText instead). Regards, —Carlos (talk) 10:48, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
Thanks Carlos; I think I can manage the Replace text. Before proceeding, does the proposed move seem a good idea to you, Bob? Richard Mix (talk) 13:49, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
Hi Richard. For me: yes. For others: maybe. I'd raise it on the forums and see what you get back. Bobnotts talk 16:26, 27 October 2012 (CDT)

O Most Merciful! O Most Bountiful! R. Heber/C. Woods

Mr. Nottingham:

I saw your post of Charles Woods' setting of this Reginald Heber hymn. I enjoyed seeing the score and hearing the midi of it.

Perhaps you are already aware of the setting found in the New English Hymnal, Canterbury Press, Norwich, hymn #301 (p. 663). It was recently recorded by Priory Records as part of their 23-vol. CD set, The Complete New English Hymnal, PRCD720, track 5. I just wanted to bring this to your attention because, IMHO, it's a very beautiful setting.

Mark Miller

Millermc (talk) 01:38, 19 October 2012 (CDT)

Hi Mark. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have a listen when I get chance. Cheers Bobnotts talk 16:27, 27 October 2012 (CDT)

Template:Composer page/preload

Bob, I made a boob in creating a composer page for Alfred J Caldicott. The Template:Composer page/preload has appeared in the 1842 birth and 1897 death pages. Can you remove this for me? --IanHaslam 19:23, 2 November 2012‎

Hi Ian, no problem, it's already fixed. Please remember to sign your messages with a sequence of four tildes at the end. Thank you. —Carlos (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2012 (CDT)

Bob, Can something be done about the requests page. It seems to be clogged with requests which have been completed but have not been removed. Is it also possible to date requests as some of them are now quite a few years old and I suspect the need has gone away. Consequently new requirements which could have an immediate use will never get picked up in time. As a contributor I would be happy to prioritise a score, if it will be of use to somebody.IanHaslam (talk) 21:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Links lead to (harmless) spam

It appears that links to Frank Nordbergs postings have been tampered with. Otherwise (and more importantly!) thanks for all your work and have a very Merry Christmas. RMD (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Webbe's When winds breathe soft

I've noticed a few minor typos in you edition of this.
Bar 5: Alto - beathe for breathe
Bar 22: Alto - stonger for stronger
Bars 22-25: All parts - wave should be waves, the sense being A stronger gale awakes the troubled waves
Bar 60: Tenor I - raing for raging
Bar 75: Tenor I - missing slur
Bar 98: Alto - comma should be after say, for consistency.
Bar 101: Bass - brest for breast

In addition, the British Minstrel version of this piece has a trill on T1 stur- in bar 68, but you may well have worked from another version, (if you can still remember what you were doing in 2006!)
Jamesgibb (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi James. Thanks very much for the corrections! Rather disappointed in myself for not proofing better... I'll fix those soon. Have you performed the piece recently? (Well - not recently because your message is from June but you know what I mean!) --Bobnotts talk 09:11, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

To Gratiana Dancing and Singing - W Denis Browne

Hi, I don't know if you can help but back in June I created a transposed version of the above song (in Gmaj) and submitted it two CPDL. They appear in my account thus - 23:07, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small - Full Score.pdf ‎ (current) 23:05, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small.sib ‎ (current)

but they are not on the main site. Is there a reason? Thanks Peter H

PS

Although I appear to be logged in, at least enough for me to be able to write this message, the CPDL site refuses to recognise either my username or my email address, in spite of the fact that I have received eMails from CPDL. --PeterHarris 12:00, 7 October 2014‎

Rob, this has been sorted out by me. Regards, —Carlos Email.gif 17:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Carlos --Bobnotts talk 19:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Writing a dissertation focusing on CPDL

Dear Mr. Nottingham, My name is Cindy Bauchspies and I am currently a doctoral candidate in Choral Conducting at the University of Maryland, hoping to finish this semester. The focus of my dissertation project will be the Choral Public Domain Library (cpdl.org)l as a valuable and underutilized resource for high school choral conductors, with the goal of creating an anthology (of 10-20 pieces) of the best editions from the cpdl site that are "must haves" for any excellent high school choral program.

My question for you is how the administrators are selected for cpdl? Are there certain requirements (I noticed all of them have editions on the site)? Are there certain credentials required? It looks like there are currently 11 administrators (http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/ChoralWiki:Administrators), and they are all volunteers, correct? I have read several of the discussion on the forum site and am impressed with how quickly and efficiently questions are answered. How is that managed?

I would like to include a chapter that answers all of these questions (and other questions that the site answers). My goal with this chapter is to represent cpdl as accurately and succinctly as possible. To that end, is there an administrator who might be willing to read this chapter once it is in rough draft form to make sure all the information is correct?

The Choral Public Domain Library s an amazing resource and a treasure trove of some of the greatest choral music ever written (and for FREE!) , and it is my hope that this dissertation will be an aid to those high school choral educators who want to use the site more, but may find it overwhelming at first.

Thank you so much for your time.

Sincerely,

Cindy Bauchspies DMA (ABD), University of Maryland

Director, Women's Glee Club United States Naval Academy Alumni Hall, 675 Decatur Road U.S. Naval Academy Annapolis, MD 21402-5086 Tel: (410) 293-2439

Increasing universal access to CPDL via MusicXML

Dear Robert,

I'm writing you to ask about CPDL's policy on MusicXML files. I believe that contributors to CPDL should be strongly encouraged to make their music available in MusicXML format, for reasons of universal access for blind and visually impaired people who require the use of assistive devices to consume music notation.

Depending on their level of visual impairment, users may require the use of Modified Stave Notation (which you can think of in general terms as "large print music", though there are specific guidelines about how MSN should be prepared, per the UK Association for Accessible Formats), braille music, and talking scores.

Modified Stave Notation is generally tailored for an individual user, since users with partial sight have a wide variety of impairments, and there is no "one size fits all" approach for MSN. Typically MSN is produced by entering the music into one of the existing scoring programs, modified by way of importing a house style or set of libraries that modify many parameters of the music's appearance (stave line thickness, stem thickness, stave size, rhythm dot size, choice of text fonts, choice of paper size, etc. etc.), and then printed out. Due to the unique needs of each user, it is very important that a user should be able to access the music in an interchangeable representation, so that it can be opened in the scoring application available to them, and modified to meet their needs. You can read more about MSN in the UKAAF publication that describes the format as an accessible PDF, here.

Braille music is made using a variety of tools, to lesser or greater degrees of success. The Freedots project is an Open Source MusicXML to braille tool, while the VIP MusicXML to BMML online converter is one outcome of an EU-funded research project and is free to use. Probably the most successful braille music toolset is to open music in Lime and then send it to Goodfeel, a commercial toolset developed by Dancing Dots. If no interchangeable source music is available, then the music must first be input into Lime or another scoring application; given the poor state of accessibility in most scoring software, this generally requires the assistance of a sighted person, and thus immediately reduces access to this music.

Talking scores are useful for people with severe enough visual impairment that MSN is not useful for them, but for whom learning braille music is difficult or impossible, especially for people who lose their sight later in life. No matter your age, learning braille is a daunting challenge. only around half of all blind people can read literary braille, and a smaller proportion still can read the music braille code. UKAAF is working on a new set of guidelines to specify a system for the automatic, computerised transcription of music notation into an accessible verbal description that can be read by assistive technologies such as screen readers and Voice Over on iOS devices. In the past, talking scores have been produced as "scores on tape", transcribed by a sighted person onto an audio cassette. The RNIB, for example, has produced around two dozen talking scores on tape, which are available to borrow from their Music Advisory Service, but the amount of labour required to produce each one is so large that the process of creating them does not scale. Again, a blind person cannot reasonably produce a talking score on his or her own, but if the music is available in an interchangeable format such as MusicXML, then that person can use a software tool to produce a talking score without sighted assistance. You can find some information about the concept behind talking scores on the RNIB's web site

As well as being part of Steinberg's London-based team working on a new commercial scoring application, I am part of the UKAAF's Music Subject Area team, and it is through that role that I am currently focused on the production of guidelines for talking scores, and prototype software that embodies these rules. There are other free software projects ongoing, particularly from the developers of MuseScore (who have beefed up their application's capabilities for producing MSN; are working to make the application itself more accessible to screen readers; are trying to resuscitate the Freedots project and host it online; and are also working on a web service that will allow a PDF to be uploaded to a hosted OMR engine – based on Audiveris – and produce a MusicXML file on demand), that are working to increase universal access to music notation.

The single technology that links all of these efforts is MusicXML. For all of its imperfections, it is the de facto standard for the interchange of symbolic music notation information. Most of the applications used by contributors to CPDL are capable of exporting MusicXML files. Those contributors who already share their binary source files in Sibelius, Finale, or whatever other proprietary formats should be strongly encouraged to create MusicXML versions of those pieces and to upload those as well.

I would also encourage you to include a simple means of searching for scores uploaded in MusicXML format via your advanced search features, to help users in need of accessible formats find them more quickly.

I welcome your feedback, and would love to know what further steps I might take, if any, to push for positive change in further opening up the incredible resource that is CPDL to visually impaired musicians.

With all best wishes,

Daniel Spreadbury (dspreadbury)

Hi Daniel. It sounds like a good format for inclusivity. I'm not that closely involved in CPDL's management these days. May I suggest you present your suggestions to a wider audience via the CPDL Forums? Many more people will see your message and you'll be able to engage in discussion with them all. Thanks --Bobnotts talk 22:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Errors in Elgar's 'How Calmly'

Hi Bob

Great score. However there are a few errors

Bar 9, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat Bar 37, Piano lower 3rd note bass clef, C should be an E flat Bar 45, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat

Regards

Ian

'Anthems'

Hi Bob,

I was just contemplating (after editing Talk:William Boyce) adding a Full anthems sub-category and wonder if you have a rationale (or even second thoughts) about listing subcategorized works in Category:Anthems? Handel I think would remain in parent category, and someone might figure out what 'anthem' translates from Russian… Richard Mix (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Epiphany to All Saints for Choirs

It's only taken 12 years, but I've finally inserted a sortable table for the Carol book contents, and deleted the Cleanup tag! How long will it take to clean up all the red-linked people I've added in the process? Peter Gibson (talk) 18:06, 14 December 2019 (UTC)