User talk:Bobnotts

Welcome to the talk page of Bobnotts, aka Robert Nottingham

Feel free to leave questions and comments on this page about any contributions I've made to CPDL as a wiki editor or as a score editor/transcriber. You may also contact me by email: robertnottingham6  hotmail.com or by sending me a private message on the CPDL forums, username: bobnotts. If you email me, please include "CPDL" somewhere in the subject line to prevent your message being caught by the spam filter.

Please use my talk page in the following manner:

• start new discussions by clicking on the "+" tab next to "edit" at the top of the page or click here,
• continue discussions by clicking on the "edit" link directly right of the appropriate title below,
• sign your posts by typing four tildes afterwards (~~~~),
• and don't use Template:ItemPost or Template:Reply on this page... thanks.

If you have left a message on this page, I will reply here unless you request that I reply on your talk page. Because of this, you may find it useful to temporarily watch this page. If I have left a message on your talk page, please reply there. I will have your talk page on my watch list and I watch the recent changes like a hawk so I'll see your message anyway. The reason for this is to keep the discussion together. Thank you for your co-operation!

Archives

• 1 (November 2006 - August 2007)
• 2 (September 2007 - February 2008)
• 3 (February - July 2008)
• 4 (May - November 2008)
• 5 (November 2008 - February 2009)
• 6 (February - July 2009)
• 7 (July 2009 - August 2010)
• 8 (August 2010 - September 2011)

Boyce's O praise the lord

Bob

Apologies but I ended up with the wrong composer for this work. Should be Boyce not Duron. I cant seem to correct. Will you please?

Jonathan Jonathang 16:56, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

Seems like this has already been done, Jonathan. For future reference, you can use the "move" command on the page to correct the page title and take the code from the Duron page and put it on the Boyce page instead (for example). --Bobnotts talk 08:42, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs

Bob As I had a spare 5 minutes (!) I had a play with the Ash Wednesday to Easter for Choirs page, hopefully fulfilling your request for reformatting of Dec 2007.

If the work is to standard do I remove the Cleanup section, or will you beat me to it?

Peter Gibson 17:25, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Oh that's great Peter, thanks. It's one of those pages I started and then didn't have time to finish off - very bad of me! I've made a couple of small alterations and removed the cleanup note. Keep up the good work! --Bobnotts talk 06:41, 25 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought you would get there first! I have just had a look at the rest of the CfC pages; they look as if they need a similar treatment, but I can see a very good case for spreading the sortable table approach (as on Carols for Choirs 1 ]. Would that idea need to be floated on the forums (fora?) first, or could I just go ahead as and when time allows (the coding change looks to be fairly trivial from an end-user editing point of view)? Peter Gibson 11:06, 25 March 2012 (CDT)

Ah I hadn't see the CFC1 page. No particular need to discuss such a change in the table coding. It's fairly trivial and the advantages of having the sortable table are considerable. By all means, alter the existing pages to make use of this. If someone objects, we can have the discussion at that stage. --Bobnotts talk 05:41, 26 March 2012 (CDT)

Eating lunch beside a computer has its advantages: the sortable table is spreading! On a slightly different, but related matter, there is a merge template on Carols for Choirs 1 that appears to be broken, as it points to a page that does not exist. That does tend to snarl up any attempt at participating (or even starting) the discussion. Peter Gibson 13:05, 26 March 2012 (CDT)

I've fixed the link to the discussion page so that should work for you now. Please note that not many people see and respond to individual discussion on a publication page such as this so I would suggest you post your comments there, and if you don't receive any response in, say, a week, post on the forums as well. --Bobnotts talk 16:22, 26 March 2012 (CDT)

.capx

Hello, is it possible to implement the latest format of capella files(*.capx) in cpdl? regardas W.D. Ebeling

Tye's "I will exalt"

Bob

I have just uploaded a corrected version of this, but it has not overwritten the old version, I now realise this is because my current log in is different from the one I used in 2006 and when I try to use the old log in I cant use the file name. How can this be corrected? Jgoodliffe 01:49, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

moving categories?

Hi Bob,

I was considering moving Category:Marriage to Category:Wedding which seemed more precise, but of course there's no "move" choice on the dropdown menu for category pages. Is there another way to accomplish this without starting a new page from scratch? Richard Mix (talk) 17:34, 16 October 2012 (CDT)

Hi Richard, perhaps I can give you a more thorough reply from the technical point of view: although not allowed by the wiki, I've tweaked the MediaWiki code a couple of years ago and category move worked fine for a while (until our wiki was upgraded). It can still be done if I rename the page directly in the database. But no matter which solution is chosen, renaming a category does not automatically make the categorized pages to be listed under the new name. They have to be changed one by one (or by running a ReplaceText instead). Regards, —Carlos (talk) 10:48, 17 October 2012 (CDT)

Thanks Carlos; I think I can manage the Replace text. Before proceeding, does the proposed move seem a good idea to you, Bob? Richard Mix (talk) 13:49, 17 October 2012 (CDT)

Hi Richard. For me: yes. For others: maybe. I'd raise it on the forums and see what you get back. Bobnotts talk 16:26, 27 October 2012 (CDT)

O Most Merciful! O Most Bountiful! R. Heber/C. Woods

Mr. Nottingham:

I saw your post of Charles Woods' setting of this Reginald Heber hymn. I enjoyed seeing the score and hearing the midi of it.

Perhaps you are already aware of the setting found in the New English Hymnal, Canterbury Press, Norwich, hymn #301 (p. 663). It was recently recorded by Priory Records as part of their 23-vol. CD set, The Complete New English Hymnal, PRCD720, track 5. I just wanted to bring this to your attention because, IMHO, it's a very beautiful setting.

Mark Miller

Millermc (talk) 01:38, 19 October 2012 (CDT)

Hi Mark. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have a listen when I get chance. Cheers Bobnotts talk 16:27, 27 October 2012 (CDT)

Template:Composer page/preload

Bob, I made a boob in creating a composer page for Alfred J Caldicott. The Template:Composer page/preload has appeared in the 1842 birth and 1897 death pages. Can you remove this for me? --IanHaslam 19:23, 2 November 2012‎

Hi Ian, no problem, it's already fixed. Please remember to sign your messages with a sequence of four tildes at the end. Thank you. —Carlos (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2012 (CDT)

Bob, Can something be done about the requests page. It seems to be clogged with requests which have been completed but have not been removed. Is it also possible to date requests as some of them are now quite a few years old and I suspect the need has gone away. Consequently new requirements which could have an immediate use will never get picked up in time. As a contributor I would be happy to prioritise a score, if it will be of use to somebody.IanHaslam (talk) 21:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Links lead to (harmless) spam

It appears that links to Frank Nordbergs postings have been tampered with. Otherwise (and more importantly!) thanks for all your work and have a very Merry Christmas. RMD (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Webbe's When winds breathe soft

I've noticed a few minor typos in you edition of this.
Bar 5: Alto - beathe for breathe
Bar 22: Alto - stonger for stronger
Bars 22-25: All parts - wave should be waves, the sense being A stronger gale awakes the troubled waves
Bar 60: Tenor I - raing for raging
Bar 75: Tenor I - missing slur
Bar 98: Alto - comma should be after say, for consistency.
Bar 101: Bass - brest for breast

In addition, the British Minstrel version of this piece has a trill on T1 stur- in bar 68, but you may well have worked from another version, (if you can still remember what you were doing in 2006!)
Jamesgibb (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi James. Thanks very much for the corrections! Rather disappointed in myself for not proofing better... I'll fix those soon. Have you performed the piece recently? (Well - not recently because your message is from June but you know what I mean!) --Bobnotts talk 09:11, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

To Gratiana Dancing and Singing - W Denis Browne

Hi, I don't know if you can help but back in June I created a transposed version of the above song (in Gmaj) and submitted it two CPDL. They appear in my account thus - 23:07, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small - Full Score.pdf ‎ (current) 23:05, 10 June 2014 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . N File:To Gratiana Dancing and Singing Gmaj small.sib ‎ (current)

but they are not on the main site. Is there a reason? Thanks Peter H

PS

Although I appear to be logged in, at least enough for me to be able to write this message, the CPDL site refuses to recognise either my username or my email address, in spite of the fact that I have received eMails from CPDL. --PeterHarris 12:00, 7 October 2014‎

Rob, this has been sorted out by me. Regards, —Carlos 17:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Carlos --Bobnotts talk 19:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Writing a dissertation focusing on CPDL

Dear Mr. Nottingham, My name is Cindy Bauchspies and I am currently a doctoral candidate in Choral Conducting at the University of Maryland, hoping to finish this semester. The focus of my dissertation project will be the Choral Public Domain Library (cpdl.org)l as a valuable and underutilized resource for high school choral conductors, with the goal of creating an anthology (of 10-20 pieces) of the best editions from the cpdl site that are "must haves" for any excellent high school choral program.

My question for you is how the administrators are selected for cpdl? Are there certain requirements (I noticed all of them have editions on the site)? Are there certain credentials required? It looks like there are currently 11 administrators (http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/ChoralWiki:Administrators), and they are all volunteers, correct? I have read several of the discussion on the forum site and am impressed with how quickly and efficiently questions are answered. How is that managed?

I would like to include a chapter that answers all of these questions (and other questions that the site answers). My goal with this chapter is to represent cpdl as accurately and succinctly as possible. To that end, is there an administrator who might be willing to read this chapter once it is in rough draft form to make sure all the information is correct?

The Choral Public Domain Library s an amazing resource and a treasure trove of some of the greatest choral music ever written (and for FREE!) , and it is my hope that this dissertation will be an aid to those high school choral educators who want to use the site more, but may find it overwhelming at first.

Thank you so much for your time.

Sincerely,

Cindy Bauchspies DMA (ABD), University of Maryland

Director, Women's Glee Club United States Naval Academy Alumni Hall, 675 Decatur Road U.S. Naval Academy Annapolis, MD 21402-5086 Tel: (410) 293-2439

Increasing universal access to CPDL via MusicXML

Dear Robert,

I'm writing you to ask about CPDL's policy on MusicXML files. I believe that contributors to CPDL should be strongly encouraged to make their music available in MusicXML format, for reasons of universal access for blind and visually impaired people who require the use of assistive devices to consume music notation.

Depending on their level of visual impairment, users may require the use of Modified Stave Notation (which you can think of in general terms as "large print music", though there are specific guidelines about how MSN should be prepared, per the UK Association for Accessible Formats), braille music, and talking scores.

Modified Stave Notation is generally tailored for an individual user, since users with partial sight have a wide variety of impairments, and there is no "one size fits all" approach for MSN. Typically MSN is produced by entering the music into one of the existing scoring programs, modified by way of importing a house style or set of libraries that modify many parameters of the music's appearance (stave line thickness, stem thickness, stave size, rhythm dot size, choice of text fonts, choice of paper size, etc. etc.), and then printed out. Due to the unique needs of each user, it is very important that a user should be able to access the music in an interchangeable representation, so that it can be opened in the scoring application available to them, and modified to meet their needs. You can read more about MSN in the UKAAF publication that describes the format as an accessible PDF, here.

Braille music is made using a variety of tools, to lesser or greater degrees of success. The Freedots project is an Open Source MusicXML to braille tool, while the VIP MusicXML to BMML online converter is one outcome of an EU-funded research project and is free to use. Probably the most successful braille music toolset is to open music in Lime and then send it to Goodfeel, a commercial toolset developed by Dancing Dots. If no interchangeable source music is available, then the music must first be input into Lime or another scoring application; given the poor state of accessibility in most scoring software, this generally requires the assistance of a sighted person, and thus immediately reduces access to this music.

Talking scores are useful for people with severe enough visual impairment that MSN is not useful for them, but for whom learning braille music is difficult or impossible, especially for people who lose their sight later in life. No matter your age, learning braille is a daunting challenge. only around half of all blind people can read literary braille, and a smaller proportion still can read the music braille code. UKAAF is working on a new set of guidelines to specify a system for the automatic, computerised transcription of music notation into an accessible verbal description that can be read by assistive technologies such as screen readers and Voice Over on iOS devices. In the past, talking scores have been produced as "scores on tape", transcribed by a sighted person onto an audio cassette. The RNIB, for example, has produced around two dozen talking scores on tape, which are available to borrow from their Music Advisory Service, but the amount of labour required to produce each one is so large that the process of creating them does not scale. Again, a blind person cannot reasonably produce a talking score on his or her own, but if the music is available in an interchangeable format such as MusicXML, then that person can use a software tool to produce a talking score without sighted assistance. You can find some information about the concept behind talking scores on the RNIB's web site

As well as being part of Steinberg's London-based team working on a new commercial scoring application, I am part of the UKAAF's Music Subject Area team, and it is through that role that I am currently focused on the production of guidelines for talking scores, and prototype software that embodies these rules. There are other free software projects ongoing, particularly from the developers of MuseScore (who have beefed up their application's capabilities for producing MSN; are working to make the application itself more accessible to screen readers; are trying to resuscitate the Freedots project and host it online; and are also working on a web service that will allow a PDF to be uploaded to a hosted OMR engine – based on Audiveris – and produce a MusicXML file on demand), that are working to increase universal access to music notation.

The single technology that links all of these efforts is MusicXML. For all of its imperfections, it is the de facto standard for the interchange of symbolic music notation information. Most of the applications used by contributors to CPDL are capable of exporting MusicXML files. Those contributors who already share their binary source files in Sibelius, Finale, or whatever other proprietary formats should be strongly encouraged to create MusicXML versions of those pieces and to upload those as well.

I would also encourage you to include a simple means of searching for scores uploaded in MusicXML format via your advanced search features, to help users in need of accessible formats find them more quickly.

I welcome your feedback, and would love to know what further steps I might take, if any, to push for positive change in further opening up the incredible resource that is CPDL to visually impaired musicians.

With all best wishes,

Daniel Spreadbury (dspreadbury)

Hi Daniel. It sounds like a good format for inclusivity. I'm not that closely involved in CPDL's management these days. May I suggest you present your suggestions to a wider audience via the CPDL Forums? Many more people will see your message and you'll be able to engage in discussion with them all. Thanks --Bobnotts talk 22:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Errors in Elgar's 'How Calmly'

Hi Bob

Great score. However there are a few errors

Bar 9, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat Bar 37, Piano lower 3rd note bass clef, C should be an E flat Bar 45, Tenor 4th note should be a B natural not flat

Regards

Ian

'Anthems'

Hi Bob,

I was just contemplating (after editing Talk:William Boyce) adding a Full anthems sub-category and wonder if you have a rationale (or even second thoughts) about listing subcategorized works in Category:Anthems? Handel I think would remain in parent category, and someone might figure out what 'anthem' translates from Russian… Richard Mix (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Epiphany to All Saints for Choirs

It's only taken 12 years, but I've finally inserted a sortable table for the Carol book contents, and deleted the Cleanup tag! How long will it take to clean up all the red-linked people I've added in the process? Peter Gibson (talk) 18:06, 14 December 2019 (UTC)