Category talk:Laments
Suggest possibly renaming this category to "Secular laments"
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Continuing the discussion from Talk:Musae Iovis (Nicolas Gombert) and the note on the present category page... It seems to me that the category presently envisioned by Vaarky might better be called "Secular laments" and a second category "Religious laments" or "Sacred laments" be created for works such as "Lamentations of Jeremiah", "Absalon, fili mi", "David's Lamentation", "Lugebat David Absalon", etc. On the other hand, it may be that people think we should keep the present category as a "container category" AND actually create the "subcategories" referred to in the description (perhaps along with other subcategories?), and place works in these subcategories. I'm not sure if "Royalty elegies" (or "Royalty laments") covers enough ground - perhaps "Political elegies" (remember that such elegies have also been written for U.S. American Presidents, such as Lincoln and Kennedy, to name two). My preference, however, is for renaming this category to "Secular laments". |
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- I too like Secular laments. Lamentations of Jeremiah contains no clue about the existence of the closely related Tenebrae responsories, and probably should be reorganized under Liturgy of the Hours/Matins/Tenebrae/Lessons/Lamentations of Jeremiah. Richard Mix 21:13, 26 January 2011 (CST)
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Before renaming this category Secular laments, what should be done about the sacred pieces that are tagged as Laments? I think there is agreement not to have a Sacred laments category, so should the tags be removed or should they be replaced with something else? |
- Subcat:David's Lament would cover us for the time being, but I read the consensus as _for_ Sacred laments, which seems simpler. Other sub-categories would of course be Requiems, Holy Innocents, and a reorganized Tenebrae music. Lamentatio Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae Constantinopolitanae (Guillaume Dufay) stradles the secular, I suppose. Have I missed anything else registering on the sad-ometer? Richard Mix 04:19, 31 January 2011 (CST)
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To clarify, if this cat is renamed to 'Secular laments', mine's a !vote against 'Sacred laments' - not convinced of its usefulness. Category:David's Lament could be useful, for settings of Absalon, fili mi and the closely related texts, but otherwise I'd suggest that the various genres of Sacred music which have aspects of lamentation (Absalom, Lams of Jem, perhaps some pieces for Holy Innocents, anthems for the martyrdom of Charles I (though we don't have any here yet) etc.) aren't really in need of a cat to group them together. I'd be inclined to call a Requiem a Mass, rather than a Lament, and wonder if a Laments cat that includes Requiems is too broad to be useful. |