Template talk:FinaleViewer

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Suggestions

The template's text is a bit too lengthy, pushing other important "Edition notes:" info to the end of the line. Besides, it does not inform that there's also a Mac version. Couldn't we move the portion of text below to this talk page, in its proper Windows section? If someone is interested in downloading the Viewer, will surely click on the link provided by the template and reach this page.

"a Windows version may be obtained from the Cantoral site ( English.png English or Spanish.png Spanish download page)."

I also found another version of the Mac Viewer, but since I don't have a MacIntosh I can't check in what language it is:

After these suggestions are implemented (or not), this section may be deleted to keep page clean. Or better yet, why not create another page (FinaleViewer ?) only for the instalation instructions, and have the template link to it? Regards -- CarlosTalk 20:29, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

I agree, Carlos. And I will change the text on the template page to reflect this. The new page will be ChoralWiki:FinaleViewer. -- Chucktalk Giffen 18:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Chuck, I wrote this message long ago, probably before I knew of the existence of page ChoralWiki:Downloadable tools. Now I think the info on this page should be merged with the one cited, or at least have an entry there linking to ChoralWiki:FinaleViewer. —Carlos Email.gif 20:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carlos. I made an entry on the Downloadable tools page, with a link to the ChoralWiki page. Does this seem okay? If not, feel free to change it! -- Chucktalk Giffen 22:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

"Edition notes:" - include or don't include in template?

 Help 

I wonder if it might be preferable to remove the "Edition notes:" from the FinaleViewer template? My thinking is that there might well be instances when it would be preferable to put material in the Edition notes before the FinaleViewer stuff (if only to preserve logical treatment/flow of other editions that might be on the same page). It would not be difficult to do (via a ReplaceText).

What do people think?

That makes sense to me. --Bobnotts talk 00:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I should think we ought to sort out the issues between the (pretty much obsolete) Finale Viewer and its (new) Reader. All of the Di Marco scores, for instance, rely on the Viewer, which might soon end up complicating people's access to them, as I don't think Vista (or subsequent OS) will support that bit of software. Although these scores are the only examples I can think of on top of my head, I'm sure there must be others on cpdl. If these issues can't be resolved, the template text should perhaps include a word of warning concerning the accessibility of scores. Slightly OT: I think we should consider producing and adding pdf files of the scores in question, lest they be lost in (the near) future. As I remarked earlier, I'm not sure where that would put us copyright wise, but surely fr. Di Marco will prefer his scores to be available rather than hidden in soon-to-be-forgotten software. Cordially, joachim 00:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Joachim: I'm unable to see any of the 500 DiMarco's scores by the ways this templates explains. I tried under Vista, XP, MacOS 10 and MacOS 9. Please don't mix the question of a VIEWER, which can show all the Finale file you first downloaded on your computer, and the question of a PLUGIN, which can show the same files whithin your navigator. All DiMarco's scores require an old (2002) plugin (a Java class that no more exists since you updated Java). You cannot download DiMarco's file because right-click is forbidden on his site. -Claude 11:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Claude, if you use Firefox, I suggest you install the extension Download Embedded. It's what I've been using to download di Marco's scores to view with (the now obsolete) Finale NotePad. Carlos 13:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Reply by: Chucktalk Giffen 14:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

 Help 

The matter of externally hosted scores at CPDL becoming unavailable through various things such as disappearance of the website (with no apparent replacement), obsolete viewer plugin software, viewer/readers which charge for their use, viewer/reader plugins which are only available on one platform (such as NoteWorthy Composer Viewer - available only on Windows), etc. has bothered me for a long time. It seems time that we address these problems head-on and formulate some sort of policy for the future, as well as make a concerted (recitalled?) effort to persuade owners/editors from present external sites to permit archival PDF copies at CPDL of their scores which will be available to anyone who cannot properly access them directly on the external websites. I'm especially concerned about Fr DiMarco's scores because of the age and nonsupport of the viewer software, but there are other large collections. Where should this discussion be continued?

As for Chuck's initial question, yes, I agree that the "Edition notes:" text should be moved out ot of the template. Carlos 13:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


I think the solution for future contributions could be straightforward: in the score submission guide, include a line saying: 'Any score submission on cpdl either contains a pdf file or pre-supposes implicit consent for the cpdl crew to create one.' This makes scores universally accessible, yet doesn't take away from the options Finale Viewer or Scorch offer in terms of transposing scores or playback. As far as the Di Marco scores are concerned (or any of the scores Chuck refers to), one of the admins could try to contact the contributor and find out how (s)he'd feel about this procedure. Should (s)he be opposed to having pdf files added to the score pages (as I'm afraid I have done for 2 of them so far), perhaps the Template text should be made more explicit in terms of the accessibility and 'sell-by date' of the format. joachim 14:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Chuck and Joachim - we should do something about this situation moving forward and requiring contributors to give CPDL permission to create and host PDF files of their editions is one way of doing it. This requirement could be rolled out at the same time as the new add works form.
Looking back for a moment, a good workaround for the Di Marco scores is simply to download the Finale files directly and open them with Finale Reader. How's about that? --Bobnotts talk 21:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I've just successfully achieved what I suggested. However, you do have to give some personal details to MakeMusic and download a ridiculously large installation file (65 meg) but after that it works ok... is this an acceptable solution? --Bobnotts talk 21:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, Bob, but (1) none of the links to DiMarco's files here on CPDL point to the page you give. (2) Just see one level above and (3) look at the bottom of the page pointed by our 500 links "la lista de sitios que se aproprian ilegalmente"… I wrote to Abel DiMarco some weeks ago, explaining what I wanted to do (text out of the scores) but no answer yet. -Claude 22:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
In answer to your points, Claude:
(1) I know none of the score pages link here... that's why I announced my idea here first so people could comment on it. If it's decided that it's the best way to proceed, the links could very easily be changed.
(2) I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
(3) Surely most of the texts available on the site are public domain? So we don't need his permission to include them on CPDL.
--Bobnotts talk 23:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
At point (2), I shortened the link. ;-) -Claude 07:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Though I'm not quite sure we're still debating Chuck's initial question (actually, I'm pretty sure we're not), just a few thoughts:
  • @Bob: The possibility of linking to the source file perhaps solves the problem of accessibility, but basically causes the same problem as creating/hosting a pdf: cpdl at that point offers a different file than the one the contributor initially had in mind. I really think we need a clear policy on this one before we venture out into copyright and user terms wilderness.
  • @Claude: I haven't checked all 500 of them, but it seems most, if not all of the Di Marco scores concern liturgical music (whatever that may be, right Bob? :)). If so, I should think the lyrics are public domain alright.
  • Oh, and none of the sites he lists as illegally using his files seem to exist anymore. We might want to tread very carefully... :) joachim 07:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Ah I see - well the reason I linked to that directory in particular, Claude, was because one can download the Finale files from that page which one could then open with Finale Reader, unlike the page which you've linked to, the shortened link, which doesn't allow right-clicking. And yes Joachim, I can see where you're coming from and I agree. --Bobnotts talk 22:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Superfluous?

As this template is no longer necessary on Abel Di Marco's editions, having been removed from these pages, it seems that it's used nowhere else. In case we decide to keep it for an eventual need, it could be changed as suggested above to eliminate the Edition notes: text from it. —Carlos Email.gif 04:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)