Talk:Riu, riu, chiu (Mateo Flecha el Viejo)

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Attribution

I'm wondering when the question mark disappeared from Flecha's name: the ascription is made on stylistic grounds only in, for example, The New Oxford Book of Carols. Richard Mix 23:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The ascription of the work to El Viejo, for whatever reasons, is nowadays a widely held one. - Chucktalk Giffen 02:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The New Grove Dictionary usually includes the works attributed to a composer, but not in this case. The only works ascribed to Flecha the elder are these:
  • Ensaladas: El fuego, 4vv, A; El jubilate, 4vv, A; La bomba, 4vv, A; La caça, 4vv, inc.; La guerra, 4vv, A; La justa, 4vv, A; La negrina, 4vv, A; La viuda, 4vv, ed. M.C. Gómez (Barcelona, 1992); Las cañas, 5vv, inc.; Los chistes, 5vv, inc.; El cantate [lost]
  • Villancicos: Encúbrase el mal que siento, 3vv, ed. Ros-Fábregas; Mal haya quien a vos casó, 4vv, inc.; O triste de mí, 3vv, ed. Ros-Fábregas; Que farem del pobre Joan!, 4vv, M; Si amores me han de matar, 5vv, M; Si sentís lo que yo siento, 3vv, ed. Ros-Fábregas; Teresita hermana, M; Tiempo bueno, 4vv, ed. Ros-Fábregas
  • Latin sacred: Miserere, 4vv, ed. Gómez, 1986–7; Doleo super te [lost]
Are there other sources that could give us some certainty on the attribution? —Carlos Email.gif 05:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia (which one may or may not trust) lists Riu, riu, chiu as being by El Viejo. Many prominent ensembles/choirs also attribute the work to El Viejo in their concert programmes and CDs as well as in publications - such as the King's College Choir (Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols), Eton College Choir, John Rutter, Cambridge Singers, Oxford Choral Classics Christmas Motets, Madrigal Choir of Birmingham, Chanticleer, Zephyrus... I suppose it might be given as (attr. Mateo Flecha El Viejo). At any rate, for those for whom some clarification of "Anonymous" would be helpful or desired, it appears that only El Viejo is the only candidate. Cerainly, there are many instances of musicians, musicologists, and music historians not being in agreement with New Grove. -- Chucktalk Giffen 04:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi Chuck. By "sources" I meant any published work by a musicologist attributing it to El viejo with no doubt, based on stylistical grounds. But I agree that simply adding "attrib." to the title is enough, there's no need to change the composer to Anonymous, just make it clear that that's an attribution. —Carlos Email.gif 05:24, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Certainly there's no need to move to Anon. (though perhaps Riu could still be listed there too), and I'm perfectly willing to see Mateo Flecha el Viejo merged with Mateo Flecha el Viejo? (or rather vice versa) ;-) But, out of curiousity, how would dual/dueling attributions be handled? O Lord, increase our faith (I'm surprised this is missing) is still a spinning weathervane with Orlando Gibbons almost out of the running and Henry Loosemore OUP's current favorite, but there are other candidates too. Is there a category for uncertain attributions? Richard Mix 21:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Not only "O Lord, Increase Our Faith" is not missing, but it is also listed twice, under both composers: O Lord, increase my faith (Orlando Gibbons) and O Lord, increase our faith (Henry Loosemore). :^) Should these two be merged? —Carlos Email.gif 02:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I later found them under those composers too. Weird that this search doesnt bring them up, though... Richard Mix 09:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, really weird. It seems the standard search requires only keywords and nothing else: see hereCarlos Email.gif 10:24, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
That was strange, "O Lord Increase" didn't work, but "Lord Increase" did. I had a similar problem with "The Triumphs of Oriana". I think I have stumbled on a solution when searches don't work. It seems the search strings for the page have gotten messed up through some glitch. Simply re-editing the page with one small change causes the wiki software to regenerate all the search terms, and fixed the problem. Admin 12:03, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip, Raf. I am running the script rebuildtextindex.php to repopulate the index table, it should fix these problems. —Carlos Email.gif 16:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)