Talk:Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56 (Johann Sebastian Bach)

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Title

The correct title of this Cantata is w:Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56 (IMSLP: Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56). We should adopt this title, or else rename the page to Komm, o Tod, du Schlafes Bruder (Chorale from BWV 56) (Johann Sebastian Bach). —Carlos Email.gif 18:08, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

There's already some attempts at discussion on Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach. The last has the advantage of not raising hopes when it is first spotted: I often eagerly click on IMSLP opera titles to find only an overture. It probably is time I agree to start naming JSB works like other composers, i.e. Erfreut euch, ihr Herzen, BWV 66 (Johann Sebastian Bach) instead of Cantata BWV 66 - Erfreut euch, ihr Herzen (Johann Sebastian Bach) Richard Mix (talk) 20:32, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Reply by: Chucktalk Giffen 05:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

 Help 

We went through the question of titling Bach cantata pages a long time ago when the old CPDL was ported to the ChoralWiki, well before Richard came on board, and I made a template for displaying such titles in various ways, but we kept the titles in the form of "Cantata BWV n - title (Johann Sebastian Bach)" to simplify sorting (via BWV number).

There has been general agreement that a chorale lifted from a larger work (such as a cantata) should appear on the larger work page (see some of the comments on the Bach talk page). In the case of the chorale of this talk page, the complete Cantata BWV 56 - Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen (Johann Sebastian Bach) has been published here (my own edition, in fact!), and this page should be merged with the cantata page. I never noticed the chorale page until now, or I would have merged it with the Cantata BWV 56 page already.

Oops, I had checked Bach's page but couldn't locate this cantata there, my fault. Agree with the merger. But I think that the original reason to use the form "Cantata BWV ..." (i.e. sorting) is no longer valid since the introduction of the magic word DEFAULTSORT. As a matter of fact, for proper sorting we should be using "Cantata BWV 0001" instead of "Cantata BWV 1", shouldn't we? —Carlos Email.gif 07:33, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
What should the DEFAULT be? There are some of us who prefer to sort cantatas by incipit; the BGA numbers are a bit of an accident of publishing history and won't tell you where to look on the NBA shelf. Richard Mix (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I've merged Komm, o Tod, du Schlafes Bruder, BWV 56 (Johann Sebastian Bach) with the Cantata page, as suggested by Chuck. But I would like to continue the discussion regarding the naming convention of Bach cantatas; where is the best place for it, here or on the forums? —Carlos Email.gif 04:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

A new forum thread was created on the open forums. Your comments are welcome. —Carlos Email.gif 19:52, 15 April 2015 (UTC)